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12th Sep, London, The Rise of Byzantium to the 1st Crusade”
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 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Tournaments and Events
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Mike Bennett
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Aoû 05, 2021 11:43 am    Sujet du message: 12th Sep, London, The Rise of Byzantium to the 1st Crusade” Répondre en citant
No surprise, our flight to Australia got cancelled so we are in UK for the foreseeable. At least it gives a chance to organise an ADLG one dayer, see below. If you are interested please register via Eventbrite. Initially places are a little more limited than usual, with 20 offered, rather than our normal 30.


https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/central-london-autumn-classic-registration-165907550951?aff=eand

The Rise of Byzantium to the 1st Crusade” ADLG v4 tournament at CLWC
• Date – Sunday September 12th 2021
• 20 players (may be extended)

“Rise of Byzantium to the 1st Crusade " L'Art de la Guerre Tournament at the Central London Wargames Club @ The Escape, Mornington Crescent

Date – Sunday September 12th 2021

The event is currently limited to about two dozen or so players at the moment, however this may be extended nearer the time (if everyone is cool with it, including our landlord)
Standard ADLGv4 rules, 15mm, 200 points, 3 games,

200point ADLG competition for Sunday September 12th. Theme The Rise of Byzantium to the 1st Crusade: Dark Ages - the West and the Middle East.
Any army legal in the dateline 500AD to 1049AD, excluding those from any "Asia" or "Far East" section of the lists .
The tournament starts 900-ish. Each round will be 2 and 1/2 hours plus a bit, and we will break for buffet lunch when it's ready (so there will be a "put down your dice and step away from the measuring sticks" moment probably half way through the second game). We expect to finish at around 6ish. The ideal timings will be

9:[list=]00 - 11:30 Round 1
12:00 - 15:00 (allowing a 30 min lunch pause) Round 2.
When the food arrives, which will be mid-way through the second game, the umpires will call "Down Dice" and everyone will halt their games exactly where they are for about half an hour so we can all have lunch.
15:30-18:00 Round 3
18:00ish Prizes[/list] and packing away

If we find that all games in any round are concluded within the time limit we will try and crack on and start the subsequent rounds a bit earlier so we can all get away sooner.
The club does have some terrain, but not enough for all of us, so either bring your own or take pot luck on whats left! If you have a playing mat of the correct dimensions that you can bring along it would really help too.
• [list=]Venue – The Escape Sports Bar, 2 Lidlington Place, Regents Park, London NW1 2JU (2 minutes walk from Mornington Crescent tube). If you want to drive
, parking is controlled on Sundays in the streets immediately around the pub, but if free a couple of blocks away - otherwise there are car parks nearby as well. Camden Parking can be seen here
• Entry fee will be £10 on the day which wil cover a BUFFET LUNCH (vegggie options available) and some prizes.
• The most current set of FAQ and clarifications will be in force.
• Lists to Mike Bennett mikewabennett@live.com by 28th August latest. Late lists will be displayed on the wall throughout the day for all to see.
• Food and drinks can[/list] be bought on site at the Escape - please do not bring food and drinks unless by prior arangement (and if you really don't like curry let us know).
For queries contact mikewabennett@live.com
We're looking forward seeing you at the table!
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davesaunders23
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MessagePosté le: Ven Aoû 06, 2021 6:19 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Great theme. 
Looking forward to it.
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Mike Bennett
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Inscrit le: 11 Nov 2017
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MessagePosté le: Ven Aoû 06, 2021 7:06 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Please note no knights are allowed (otherwise Taifa Kingdom has up to four from its start date)
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vexillia
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Inscrit le: 21 Nov 2017
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Localisation: Warrington, UK
MessagePosté le: Ven Aoû 06, 2021 8:02 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Hi Mike

You may want to look at your list of exclusions. I used my list search tool to list all the armies with a date between 500 & 1049 AD and ""Asia" or "Far East" section of the lists " might not be enough.

Search results (Google Sheets) - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OHZWyG4z6uC4dbnYrHktvty9bJZgagX-EhCwM0A2N7c/edit?usp=sharing

Hope that helps?
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Mike Bennett
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Inscrit le: 11 Nov 2017
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MessagePosté le: Ven Aoû 06, 2021 8:45 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
vexillia a écrit:
Hi Mike

You may want to look at your list of exclusions. I used my list search tool to list all the armies with a date between 500 & 1049 AD and ""Asia" or "Far East" section of the lists " might not be enough.

Search results (Google Sheets) - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OHZWyG4z6uC4dbnYrHktvty9bJZgagX-EhCwM0A2N7c/edit?usp=sharing

Hope that helps?


Thanks for the list, very useful. I am happy to allow African lists as many fought through a byzantines and Arabs. America’s too, as they are never popular and well under represented. I will have a look at the others.
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Mike Bennett
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MessagePosté le: Mer Aoû 18, 2021 1:05 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
From eventbrite we have 23 entries so far. Please let me know if you spot any errors. Looking forward to seeing everybody. My own army list is done, so happy to receive yours when you are ready.

David Allen CLWC
Mike Bennett Clwc
Hubert Bretagne CLWC
Andy Finkel
Simon Finney
Mark Gilby CLWC
Martin Healey SELWG
William Matthews CLWC
Stephen Nice WAR
Darrell Pearce MKWS
Harrison Pearce MKWS
Michael Rowland CLWG
Dave Saunders CLWC
Jesse Schoor WAR
Jesse Schoor +1 WAR
Ian Sewell WAR
Stanley Sola CLWC
richard stone SELWG
Ted tolson
Sean Walker CLWC
Peter Webb Clwc
Nick Webb Clwc
Colin Whittaker CLWC
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Longtooth
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Inscrit le: 14 Oct 2014
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MessagePosté le: Mer Aoû 18, 2021 1:11 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Hi Mike,

I think there is a slight error on your list. Stephen Nice is my +1. Also nice to see that Hubert will be in attendance Smile

Jesse
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Mike Bennett
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MessagePosté le: Mer Aoû 18, 2021 2:10 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Longtooth a écrit:
Hi Mike,

I think there is a slight error on your list. Stephen Nice is my +1. Also nice to see that Hubert will be in attendance Smile

Jesse


Thanks Jesse, so I have cancelled the Jesse+1 entry on Eventbrite, and I imagine that you will receive an email
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Mike Bennett
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MessagePosté le: Sam Aoû 28, 2021 1:55 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
A quick reminder, lists are due in today, and I have lots missing. I may give a few days leeway for right first time lists if feeling generous, but after that I have decided to steel an idea, and for any late lists the opponents get +1 initiative.

• Lists to Mike Bennett mikewabennett@live.com by 28th August latest. Late lists will be displayed on the wall throughout the day for all to see.
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Mike Bennett
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MessagePosté le: Mar Sep 07, 2021 1:16 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Hi guys

Charge direction constraints in a ZoC.

Just wanted to clarify in advance how we will rule on Sunday on page 36, BP2 on charges starting within a ZoC. There has been quite a bit of inconclusive discussion on the forums and Facebook, and it can have a significant game impact when used by a cunning player.

Page 36, bullet point 3 imposes constraints on the alignment and front edge of non charging troops within a ZoC. These constrains are not included under BP2 which relates to chargers. At least for this weekend, these additional constraints, not included in BP2 will not be applied to chargers. We will apply it exactly as written in the rules. I.e. as long as the direction would hit the MTE the chargers can choose his direction. This prevents units that intend to evade away from using their ZoC to very effectively protect nearby vulnerable friends from being contacted.


Dernière édition par Mike Bennett le Mar Sep 07, 2021 4:28 pm; édité 1 fois
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daveallen
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Inscrit le: 28 Jan 2016
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MessagePosté le: Mar Sep 07, 2021 2:45 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Mike Bennett a écrit:
Hi guys

Charge direction constraints in a ZoC.

Just wanted to clarify in advance how we will rule on Sunday on page 62, BP2 on charges starting within a ZoC. There has been quite a bit of inconclusive discussion on the forums and Facebook, and it can have a significant game impact when used by a cunning player.

Page 62 BP2
Citation:
Mediocre troops subtract one point from the result if the die roll is 4 or more.

?? Confused
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daveallen
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MessagePosté le: Mar Sep 07, 2021 2:58 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
But to be serious Mike,

I know the rule is a little vague on this point, but it is so similar to the V3 rule that it seems perverse to say we'll make a ruling that what was clearly ruled under V3 doesn't apply under V4. (ie the direction of charges is limited by the MTE's ZoC on the charger at the time the charge is declared)

In all the discussions about this since V4 came out there has been no indication by Herve or the Technical Directorate that the rule would be played any other way.

Regards,

Dave
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Longtooth
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MessagePosté le: Mar Sep 07, 2021 4:25 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Whilst I disagree with Mike's interpretation of the rule, I think it is helpful to know up-front how this rule is to be interpreted. Don't really feel like schlepping my way into London to have a rules dispute Smile
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Mike Bennett
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MessagePosté le: Mar Sep 07, 2021 4:26 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
daveallen a écrit:
But to be serious Mike,

I know the rule is a little vague on this point, but it is so similar to the V3 rule that it seems perverse to say we'll make a ruling that what was clearly ruled under V3 doesn't apply under V4. (ie the direction of charges is limited by the MTE's ZoC on the charger at the time the charge is declared)

In all the discussions about this since V4 came out there has been no indication by Herve or the Technical Directorate that the rule would be played any other way.

Regards,

Dave
.


Thanks for the correction, sorry page 36

There has also been no indication that the rules should not be read as written, which surely is more telling? Regarding ambiguity, I disagree, far from being vague the rules are very specific, with different limitations for charge moves to other moves. The only question I can see is whether author wrote what he intended to write.

Since myself being caught out by this at the weekend I have consulted before making this ruling. This is the consensus view, but as your note shows it is contentious , which is why I have got it out in advance.

An additional important consideration for me was the game impact. It has no impact if the charge target stands.

However if the target intends to evade it is very easy to take powerful troops out of the game for one or more turns. They can simply be ZoCed so that they must constantly charge light horse or other units that evade, and are forced to “fly by” other targets. The evaders then simply return to re ZoC and repeat or even better someone charges the now exposed flank. Their only other alternative is to sit dumbly there, or bring up even more units, tieing up even more units.
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daveallen
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MessagePosté le: Mar Sep 07, 2021 5:27 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Mike,

I appreciate how tricky issues around ZoCs can be, but I don't think this ruling helps. Let me try again:

If we accept that individual phrases in the rules need to be read as part of the whole and not abstracted as isolated nuggets. Then it's worth looking elsewhere in the rules to see if they're consistent with our understanding of the whole

The rules on charging are clear about the effect of ZoCs on chargers. In particular:

Page 43, Charge Procedure, 2 - Direction of the charge, BP3:
Citation:
• The charge direction must respect the ZoC of the most threatening enemy


I suppose that could mean just about anything, but I take it as applying some kind of general restriction. I certainly don't see how "respecting a ZoC" can be taken to mean "doing whatever suits you best in a ZoC."
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