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A Question on Wheeling
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 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Rules question V4
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PHGamer
Signifer


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MessagePosté le: Dim Mar 26, 2023 2:38 pm    Sujet du message: A Question on Wheeling Répondre en citant
A question concerning wheeling columns.

When a long column makes a wheel, do the rear most units gain extra movement?
I have several pictures on this blog posting to further explain.
https://philonancients.blogspot.com/2023/03/a-question-on-wheeling.html

Basically, if a foot in column of 6 units wheels 90 degrees, the front element moves 1.5 UD, the rear over 5.

I see with quarter TURNS, the distance gained/lost with the rear units is not counted, but I do not see an exception for wheels.
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Japanese telephones work pretty much like ours, except the person on the other end can't understand you.


Dernière édition par PHGamer le Lun Mar 27, 2023 11:45 am; édité 1 fois
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KevinD
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MessagePosté le: Dim Mar 26, 2023 2:51 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
I think that is the case. The front unit wheels and the rest teleport into position.
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lionelrus
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MessagePosté le: Dim Mar 26, 2023 6:16 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Correct. Bottom is as fast as face
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ALEXANDER
Vétéran


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MessagePosté le: Dim Mar 26, 2023 11:33 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
If an single unit or a group of units wheel, the bottom always moves a little more than the front.
A square base moves 1,5 with the front (to wheel 90°)
but 2 UD with its rear

If the rear movement is ignored
a column of 6 Heavy spearmen (outside 4 UD of enemy)
could wheel 1.5 and then turn again
This would be like an expansion of 5 units

If the distance of the rear is considered
HC Impetuous will always move less than their maximum movement allowance of 4 UD with their front, when doing a wheel.
(without having to pay the additional command point)

...or is the maximum movement distance always defined by the movement of the rear?

PS. A single warwagoon that wheels 45°
can move only 0,7 UD?
And a column of 2 warwagoon cannot wheel 45°?
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SteveR
Prétorien


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MessagePosté le: Lun Mar 27, 2023 3:24 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
I don't understand your answer Lionel.

In my opinion Page 31 first bullet is intended to cover impetuous troops wheeling to allow it to be a simple maneuver. Not to allow rear rank troops in a column to exceed their usual movement allowance.

The second bullet specifies that units in a wheeling group must not exceed their maximum movement allowance which seems to me to constrain second and third ranks to not exceed theirs.
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lionelrus
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MessagePosté le: Lun Mar 27, 2023 12:12 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
[quote="SteveR"]I don't understand your answer Lionel.

it's a joke. But considering my level in english, only me can understand.... Embarassed
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SteveR
Prétorien


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MessagePosté le: Lun Mar 27, 2023 2:15 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Lionel I always appreciate your thoughts, even if I dont understand them
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Hazelbark
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MessagePosté le: Mar Mar 28, 2023 2:20 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
The answer is the rear does not gain. p31 2nd bullet. So a long column does not whip out. This is a WHEEL restriction. It is not a slide or turn restriction. Just during a wheel. WWG also have a separate turning rule.

So a long column that wheels should measure the front corner of the unit at the rear of the column to ensure it does not exceed its straight-line distance.
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lionelrus
Magister Militum


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MessagePosté le: Mar Mar 28, 2023 3:31 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
I confirm, it's El Kreator'answer!
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Hazelbark
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MessagePosté le: Mar Mar 28, 2023 5:28 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
lionelrus a écrit:
I confirm, it's El Kreator'answer!


When Lionel, El Kreator and the Apostle of the Western Hemisphere stand together, who can stand against us!
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Neep
Légionaire


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MessagePosté le: Mar Mar 28, 2023 7:39 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Note that so long as bullet 2 is obeyed and the rear element does not displace more than its full MA, then bullet 4 will roll back its displacement to that of the front element, and the whole column can advance using the remainder of their MA. Mad axeman has observed this is not a particularly useful advantage.
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ALEXANDER
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MessagePosté le: Mer Mar 29, 2023 11:00 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Does this mean that Swordsmen or Cavalry impetuous should not be lined up in two lines.
Because they wouldn't go their maximum movement allowance whith their front elements when wheeling

I assume, that the rear element probably defines the maximum movement allowance of the whole group then.
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Hazelbark
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MessagePosté le: Mer Mar 29, 2023 3:22 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
ALEXANDER a écrit:
Does this mean that Swordsmen or Cavalry impetuous should not be lined up in two lines.
Because they wouldn't go their maximum movement allowance with their front elements when wheeling

I assume, that the rear element probably defines the maximum movement allowance of the whole group then.


Well it certainly is part of the clunky nature of these units, which i suspect would be intended. The gamer columns don't really make period sense, do they? I remember the old DBM impetuous Kn-f and you could move them around in columns efficiently if you planned then near the enemy they would launch live MIRV missiles from iron man's suit hitting everyone you needed. That while masterful game play, felt wrong.

I think the trick with these troops and really any troops is to maneuver them on turn 1 so they can safely shake out into line on turn 2.

I would add.
There are many people who still operate with the mindset of older rules where careful location casualty management was important to winning. Where in ADLG it is army level. I believe that means people are rewarded more for the 18th century British navy mantra that is approximately, "A Captain will be rewarded if he puts his ship alongside the enemy." In ADLG you really need to be comfortable placing your army at some level of risk in order to win. As people deemphasize their risk they are also deemphasizing their fighting power. Then when they are confronted with someone accepting higher risk, there fighting troops are outmatched and the game goes pear shaped fast.
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