Art De La Guerre

[SteveR]

I had an interesting case come up (again) last weekend.

.3B
1C

Unit 3 and 1 are on the same side as are B and C

3 and C are facing each other and in melee. Both 1 and B are in melee support.

Unit 3 is routed in the B/C player turn.

Page 69 pursuit says that unit C does not pursue but must immediately conform instead.

The next to last bullet says that only one unit may pursue. However the second bullet says the conformation was done instead of pursuit.

So my read is that unit B, if impetuous, must pursue (unless excepted for other reasons) and if not impetuous may choose to do so.

correct?

[Ramses II]

Steve,
P69 bpt 7 says that if several units were in melee, one can advance.
P69 bpt 2 says that if a victorious unit is still in contact with the front edge of an enemy to it's flank, it may not pursue but conforms instead.

So, I tend to agree that in this situation, C would be forced to conform on 1 and may not pursue, while B may / must pursue depending on whether it is impetuous..
Thus in the following turn unless 1 evades, it will be in melee with C supported by B.

The issue here is whether the option to pursue is only made available to one of the units involved in the melee, ie. whether C being forced to conform makes it the unit eligible to pursue thus preventing B from pursuing. On balance I think this is not the case but it would be nice for others to confirm.

[KevinD]

Good question and answer. However, re. Ramses answer, I don’t think 1 can evade as units in melee support can’t evade, right? (P 47, 5th bullet.) It might break off during its next turn before resolv8ng the melee though…

[Ramses II]

No Kevin, per P51 Conforming units already in contact, 4th bpt, Unit 1 may possibly evade when Unit C conforms on it by turning to a flank.
However, the unit could also "disengage" at the start of it's turn

[Neep]

Kevin I would agree. Unit 1 is not a "new" enemy. (I see I've posted simultaneously with Ramses - I think page 51 is limited to the movement phase. I think we have to look for the answer on page 69.)

[Ramses II]

No Neep, re-read the first words of this section “Due to melee results or ”

[Neep]

Well there is also page 47 which is probably what Kevin was referring to. Unit 1 is either still in melee support, or now in melee. Either way, the prohibition on evading seems clear.

[Ramses II]

Again, No Neep. Please re-read P51 Conforming units already in contact, 4th bpt, which specifically covers this situation.

[KevinD]

But the rules say units in melee support may not evade..,,

[SteveR]

Kevin I think Ramses is correct.

Units in melee support may not evade but when conforming happens in the pursuit phase it is no longer in melee support.

[KevinD]

This is unfortunate, Steve. While I am not necessarily wrong, per se; it seems that you and Ramses are perhaps more correct here….

[daveallen]

[Ramses II]

Agreed Dave. 
As soon as 3 dies, 1 becomes the main unit in melee with C. Exceptions to Evade P47 notes that being in melee prevents a unit from evading. 

[KevinD]

So does this mean 1 can’t evade and if 1 is LI in the open that it will automatically rout but that such a rout won’t happen until the next melee phase?

[SteveR]

I note that the page 51 "Conforming units already in contact" section, with the important 4th bullet, says in the first sentence that it applies when "... a unit may still be in contact with an enemy without being either in melee or in in a position to support a friend in melee..." which seems to indicate that this section does not apply to this case. If narrowly constructed.

Page 69 says that enemy units contacted by pursuers "can then evade" But as we discussed the victorious unit's conformation is not pursuit contacting a new enemy.

So if you move a light infantry into contact with a flank in the open and the unit you are supporting loses then you will be destroyed.

Vae Victis





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