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Mixed LI & HI charges LI in front of El and MI
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 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Rules question V4
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KevinD
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MessagePosté le: Lun Aoû 12, 2024 9:30 pm    Sujet du message: Mixed LI & HI charges LI in front of El and MI Répondre en citant
Suppose you have a line of light infantry in front of heavy infantry charging enemy light infantry in front of alternating elephants and medium infantry.

You charge the group of HI & LI at the enemy LI who evade.

Your light infantry in front of the El continue on and contact the elephant. The ones in front of the MI can’t and stop a few microns short. Can the HI in the 2nd rank continue charging interpenetrating through the halted LI to hit the enemy MI? If not, what happens?

Start:


HI HI HI
LI LI LI

^^^^^
LI LI LI
MI EL MI

End:

LI HI LI
HI LI HI
^^^^^
MI EL MI


fleeing LI
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Neep
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MessagePosté le: Lun Aoû 12, 2024 11:12 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
The hobbit is tricksie!
Well you could do it with two separate charges, so if you can form a single group, why not?
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KevinD
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MessagePosté le: Lun Aoû 12, 2024 11:39 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
In this case, the EL/MI were out of standard charge range of the HI, it only became an option when they rolled up after the LI in front of the EL/MI evaded.

But, it also saves a CP (or actually many is it was five wide blocks of HI/LI charging 3 MI interspersed with 2 Elephants fronted by LI).

But is it allowed to having a second rank of charging heavies step through a front rank of charging LI who can’t contact enemy heavies?
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Mark G Fry
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MessagePosté le: Mar Aoû 13, 2024 8:04 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
KevinD a écrit:
In this case, the EL/MI were out of standard charge range of the HI, it only became an option when they rolled up after the LI in front of the EL/MI evaded.

But, it also saves a CP (or actually many is it was five wide blocks of HI/LI charging 3 MI interspersed with 2 Elephants fronted by LI).

But is it allowed to having a second rank of charging heavies step through a front rank of charging LI who can’t contact enemy heavies?


In this instance I'd suggest that as your LF are your front rank they will stop when the enemy LF evades, as they are the designated target for the LF, not the MF or Elephants. The LF charging the elephant would be in contact with the 2 MF acting as an overlap to the elephant.

If all the enemy LI in front of the Elephant stood, the friendly HF would not be able to charge through their own LF, which would be in melee.

By allowing the HF to continue their charge through their own LF, now static as they have stopped their charge, seems to me to be a sort of 'cake & eat it' option.
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Andy Fyfe
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MessagePosté le: Mar Aoû 13, 2024 11:40 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
KevinD a écrit:
Suppose you have a line of light infantry in front of heavy infantry charging enemy light infantry in front of alternating elephants and medium infantry.

You charge the group of HI & LI at the enemy LI who evade.

Your light infantry in front of the El continue on and contact the elephant. The ones in front of the MI can’t and stop a few microns short. Can the HI in the 2nd rank continue charging interpenetrating through the halted LI to hit the enemy MI? If not, what happens?

Start:


HI HI HI
LI LI LI

^^^^^
LI LI LI
MI EL MI

End:

LI HI LI
HI LI HI
^^^^^
MI EL MI


fleeing LI


The LI in line with the elephant can contact and melee.

The other LI must stop short of the MI.

This will cause the front and second rank to become unaligned.

There is nothing in the rules to support any second rank unit contacting the enemy.
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Mike Bennett
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MessagePosté le: Mar Aoû 13, 2024 2:35 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
IMHO it is allowed as interpenetrations are allowed in a charge, and from page 43, case 6, 5BP, non impetuous units can continue their charge.

NB in other situations, if the second rank had not moved their minimum 1/2 UD, it would even be compulsory,
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Mark G Fry
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MessagePosté le: Mar Aoû 13, 2024 6:09 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Mike Bennett a écrit:
IMHO it is allowed as interpenetrations are allowed in a charge, and from page 43, case 6, 5BP, non impetuous units can continue their charge.

NB in other situations, if the second rank had not moved their minimum 1/2 UD, it would even be compulsory,


I'd agree Mike, however, you'd need to state that the HF are also charging and what their targets where, at the start of the charge.
Also, wouldn't the charging Hf behind the LF attacking the elephant have to burst through their LF? Or does that come under the exclusion for bursting through friendly troops already in combat?

Then you can get into a right mess - as the enemy LF in front of the charging LF are forced to evade - as they are technically being charged by heavier troops (even though those heavier units might not actually complete their charge against them). But would the heavier units have to dice for the range of their charge, as their intended targets (the enemy LF) were now out of range?

So, in effect the charger (in this instance) can use their HF charge to force the enemy LF to evade out of the way of their own LF.

Even if the HF don't have the range to hit the enemy MF (if they roll short) can they extend their charge by up to 1 UD (I think) to ensure that they make contact with the MF and keep up with their own LF who are contacting the Elephant.

It would all be simpler if the HF on either side of the LF just interpenertrated their own LF, but it does create a bit of an oddity.
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