Art De La Guerre

[SteveR]

So I have been having trouble with an issue here and it has me going a bit in circles. I may be overthinking it.

Here is the base case.

A unit of impetuous MSw has a unit of LI in front of it as a screen

2UD away is an enemy LI with a MSw behind it. Viz

M
L

L
M

Impetuous units are not required to charge uncontrolled if their target is LI and they will interpenetrate or burst through friendlies.

The target must be the LI because it is the closest directly in front. It is true that the impetuous MSw could declare the enemy MSw to be the target of a controlled charge but this is an uncontrolled charge so they dont get to choose. It has to be the LI. So their target is one of the exemptions on page 46

BUT they dont have to interpenetrate to do it. They could slide and not interpenetrate the friendly LI. They would then contact the enemy LI corner to corner, if it were allowed to stand - say in terrain - and then conform. Of it it evades they could continue their charge. So there is a way to charge without it being one of the exceptions on page 46

However when making an uncontrolled charge the unit does so by the "shortest route" It is pretty simple to come up with a case where the shortest route would not be a slide - say if the enemy were not parallel and the corner to be contacted was slightly refused.

So here is the circular argument that has me spinning my wheels. I think the MSw is provoked. However it is exempted from interpenetrating. But if it slides it can charge on a line which will make contact. But if it slides is it not taking the shortest route to that enemy.

It feels wrong to have the shortest route exempt the impetuous troops from charging - allowing them to spend 1 CP to move instead of 3 CP - when they have an enemy in range that they can charge if they don't take the technically shortest route.

But the rules do not care about my feelings.

One final point. One of the exemptions to uncontrolled charges is Mounted vs Elephants. They are not required to charge "if the only target unit" is an elephant. Implying that impetuous units may have more than one target of a charge even if the other case does not say "only" target. So perhaps the MSw are exempted from charging the LI but still have to charge the enemy MSw.

Am I missing something obvious?

[Mark G Fry]

[Mike Bennett]

Is the light foot in terrain? In the open they must evade and so do not count as the primary target.

[KevinD]

The enemy LI is the nearest enemy and hence the only possible target of the uncontrolled charge. The shortest route there involves interpenetrating the friendly LI. Uncontrolled charges don’t occur vs light troops if they involve an interpenetration so you don’t make an uncontrolled charge in this case. There is no exception to the shortest route rule just because the shortest route involves an interpenetration or burst through.

[KevinD]

[Neep]

Steve, I think you have to add some implicit understandings to the rules. An enemy is either a target or not a target. If it meets an exception, it is not a target. If there were a line of friendly LI so you couldn't pull the slide and hit a corner trick, then the LI cannot be targets, but the enemy MI is. Next, the "shortest path" must be the shortest legal path. Say you have enemy LH in front and El behind them. The shortest path is liable to put you in contact with the El which cannot be a target - the shortest legal path must start with a slide or wheel that will threaten the LH, but avoid the El.

[KevinD]

No, if the shortest path to the target is not allowed by one of the exceptions, you do not make an uncontrolled charge.

[SteveR]

Thanks to everyone (so far) for their thoughts.

Mark - the issue is that if an impetuous unit has a valid target of a charge that will be uncontrolled then it is subject to the uncontrolled charge and must pay 3 CP to do anything else. If it does not have a valid target it operates as normal. The enemy LI is its target bu the rules but the shortest path provides an exemption (interpenetrate friendly LI) where a longer one does not.

I like the construction of "shortest legal path" as a resolution. However the interpenetration of LI is not illegal, just not required per the exemption.

We can simplify the situation even further - assume there is no enemy MSw - just an enemy LI. The LI is angled slightly such that the corner to be contacted is refused a bit.

M
L

L

Is the impetuous MSw freed from the requirement to make an uncontrolled charge because the "shortest" path is through the friendly LI where it is also possible to slide and make contact?

I hope not.....

[Mark G Fry]

Hi Steve

Page 46 - Exceptions to uncontrolled charge
An Impetuous unit is not required to make an uncontrolled charge in the following circumstances
Bullet 7 states:
If the target enemy unit is light infantry and the unit would need to interpenetrate or burst through friendly troops to reach them.

So in your revised example - this most definitely applies, as the enemy MSw have disappeared and so the only target for your impetuous MSw are the enemy LF. So the impetuous MSW wont charge.

However, and this is where I think Kevin is possibly incorrect (but happy to be proven wrong myself, if there is suitable wording in the rules?), if the enemy MSw are still in the example and are still within standard charge range of the impetuous MSw, the impetuous MSw must charge, as (as Mike states) the LF must evade (being in the open) and the next
most threatening enemy becomes the enemy MSw, which automatically becomes the target of the impetuous charge. The LF is never a threatening enemy as it exerts no ZoC on the enemy MSw in the open.

Personally, I think the wording in bullet 7 is misleading, as in no other circumstances do heavier troops take any notice of friendly LF (in the open) and they can charge through, interpenetrate them or pass through them with no impediment or disadvantage to either party.

If however, the ruling (intention) is that LF will stop impetuous MSw from charging in this way, its a significant enough interpretation to warrant some serious debate, as it is not the way that we've been playing things (in most of the UK competitions I've been involved in) to date. Interesting.

Cheers
Mark
_________________
'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis

[Neep]

Kevin, I have to say I disagree completely. The rules only say "shortest path to the target". If the path would fall into an exception, then the enemy unit is not a target and thus the path is not to the target. Look at all the possible paths to the unit that make it a target and select a shortest.

[Mark G Fry]

In fact - our problem appears to be resolved by the Note: at the bottom of the second column at the top of Page 46 (above the diagram) that states:

'If the target of the uncontrolled charge can evade, any other enemy unit or terrain behind the target unit up to the movement allowance of the charging unit, plus one UD must be considered before proceeding with the uncontrolled charge.'

So, my interpretation (same as Mike's I think) is that the enemy MSw must be the target of the uncontrolled charge, as the LF wont be there when the MSw impetuous charges.
But I suppose it comes down to which rule overrides the other.
Hey Ho.
_________________
'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis

[Neep]

Mark, that note refers to the situation where the possible further target falls into an exception - for example the elephant behind LH. If you could not avoid the elephant in every situation including rolling high, then it's an exception and you do not make an uncontrolled charge.

[Mark G Fry]

[Neep]

I see your point. The note says consider the situation is its totality, which is more or less what I'm arguing.

[Ramses II]

I hope this does not confuse further. 

1. The enemy LI is the target of your charge, though you may declare the unit behind under certain provisos (pp43,46).
   
2. Your LI prevent your Medium Sword from being compelled to charge the enemy LI (p46, 7th bpt.)
   
3. Once the impetuous unit charges it must move it’s maximum adjusted allowance in pursuit of the evading enemy LI (unless exempted as noted), and may end up contacting a secondary target behind (pp43,44).