Art De La Guerre

Andy Fyfe · Vétéran Inscrit le: 14 F�v 2024 Messages: 182

Hi Guys,

This question came up recently in a game I was playing. The situation actually happened twice!

Two medium swordsmen are in line fighting a medium camel to their front.

The medium swordsman in melee has two hits.

During the camel players turn another medium camel hits the damaged enemy medium swordsman in the flank in melee support.

This results in a third and final hit on the enemy medium swordsman. It has been destroyed but is not removed until the melee phase.

The original camel in melee to the front then disengages.

During the rout phase which way does the destroyed medium swordsman rout?

1. Away from the disengaged camel to the front?
2. Turn 90 degrees and away from the camel in contact on its flank (putting a hit on the other medium swordsman)?

Three experienced players gave different answers.

Andy

madaxeman · Post� le: Jeu Sep 03, 2026 9:55 am Sujet du message:

p68 - ROUTED UNITS

* Routs and pursuits are conducted at the end of the players sequence after the resolution of all combats
* If the unit is in melee, and is only being attacked on its flanks/rear when Routed, the unit is reorientated to face the main enemy

I'm not sure how to read these two bullets and come up with a different answer other than it is turned and routs "sideways" ?
_________________
www.madaxeman.com

Dickstick · Post� le: Jeu Sep 03, 2026 10:05 am Sujet du message:

Always good to keep to the turn sequence.
Short cuts can take one up a blind alley Very Happy

_________________
Player 747 don't call me Jumbo

Zoltan · Post� le: Jeu Sep 03, 2026 10:19 am Sujet du message:

At the time they were routed the medium swordsmen were also being attacked on their front.

So ignore the ‘only attacked on side or rear at time of rout turn to face’ rule as it doesn’t apply to this specific situation.

Dickstick · Post� le: Jeu Sep 03, 2026 11:41 am Sujet du message:

They rout later at the end of the melee with the unit in its flank. I what I call a no dice melee.
_________________
Player 747 don't call me Jumbo

madaxeman · Post� le: Jeu Sep 03, 2026 12:02 pm Sujet du message:

Zoltan · Post� le: Jeu Sep 03, 2026 10:34 pm Sujet du message:

There’s a time delay between:

1 Attaining the p9 unit status of “routed” in phase 1 Movement

2. Undertaking phase 4 Rout per p68.

What you do in phase 4 is determined by the situation that occurred back in phase 1.

Back in phase 1 the medium infantry had a frontal opponent at the point when it attained the status of routed. The frontal opponent disengaged after this point.

So when it comes to phase 4, ignore the rule that says, “if at the time it was routed a unit was only contacted on flank or rear, first turn the routed unit to face the attacker and then determine affect on nearby friends.”

Andy’s routers are not for turning.

Neep · Centurion Inscrit le: 09 Jan 2023 Messages: 414

Depends upon the meaning of "when Routed".

Zoltan · Post� le: Ven Sep 04, 2026 12:40 am Sujet du message:

Dickstick · Post� le: Ven Sep 04, 2026 7:22 am Sujet du message:

So are you saying the rout should be done immediately in the movement phase? Ie before the break off from melee?
Which isn't happening anymore, therfore you cannot break off from a melee that doesn't exist, so no breakoff.
Do we bring the pursuit forward also?

Once a can of worms is opened....
_________________
Player 747 don't call me Jumbo

Zoltan · Post� le: Ven Sep 04, 2026 7:48 am Sujet du message:

madaxeman · Post� le: Ven Sep 04, 2026 8:02 am Sujet du message:

I’m still pretty sure the bullet point:

"* Routs and pursuits are conducted at the end of the players sequence after the resolution of all combats"

Means that routs are conducted/done/implemented/count as happening/etc at the end of the phase, irrespective of when in the phase the unit loses its last cohesion hit.

Surely the only conceivable reason for this bullet point to exist is to explicitly spell this exact point out as clearly as possible ?
_________________
www.madaxeman.com

Neep · Centurion Inscrit le: 09 Jan 2023 Messages: 414

The unit is routed when it is hit in the flank, and stays routed on the table until it is removed and thereafter counted as routed for demoralization.
So "when Routed" is true that whole time. If it were intended to mean when first Routed, as opposed to when applying the Rout procedure, I would expect it to be emphatically stated.
Which is not to say you don't have a point, Z.

Ramses II · Post� le: Sam Sep 05, 2026 1:21 pm Sujet du message:

Zoltan is correct here. The unit gains a “rout marker” when it loses it’s last cohesion point, ie. when the second enemy unit makes contact.
Subsequently, there is no melee during the Melee phase.
The unit makes its rout movement during the rout phase, away from the main enemy at the time it gained a rout marker, ie. backwards.
The only occasion where a unit would rout sideways is where it loses its last cohesion point to a main unit attacking it’s flank.