Art De La Guerre

chris6 · Vétéran Inscrit le: 02 D�c 2013 Messages: 198

Two Units face each other but there ZOC only overlaps about 1 cm. They are 1 cm away from each other. Now a 3rd Unit appears in support but do not align. So the situation is as follows: Same as before but there is an additional unit with a ZOC overlap of 3cm but 2 cm away.

What happens if I charge now? Just straight ahaead I will get in touch with the unit with only 1 cm ZOC in front of me and conforming to this unit leaving the more threatening unit (3cm) in front of me uncharged?

Hope you understand what i mean, it seems so obvious that I can just charge ahead and conform to the closer unit, but....somehow I am unsure.
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Wagmestre · Post� le: Dim Mai 15, 2016 10:36 am Sujet du message: Re: ZOC Question

chris6 · Vétéran Inscrit le: 02 D�c 2013 Messages: 198

Ok, so that means I get in contact with the unit closer to mine even though I have only 1cm of the ZOC and can conform to this unit. The unit more far away I will not get in contact even though I was more in the ZOC of these unit.
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Living at Limburg 30 Km north of Frankfurt
lieu de résidence Limburg 30 Km nord de Frankfurt

Hazelbark · Magister Militum Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1671

Back up a moment.

1) Which unit is defined as "the most threatening enemy" page 34?

2) Can that unit be contacted by a move?

Wagmestre · Post� le: Lun Mai 16, 2016 5:19 pm Sujet du message:

If I had well understood : both ennemies are in front of the lonely charging unit, and the closer zoc with 1cm, when the farer zoc with 3 cm ?

When in a zoc, you can't slide.

So, your unit charge forward, and contact the closer ennemy, even if it's the 1cm zoc.
When in contact, the unit conformes regardless the other zocs.

Ramses II · Post� le: Lun Mai 16, 2016 5:53 pm Sujet du message:

Agreed, that was my also understanding of the position. For clarification I thought the position looked like this

. . . . XXXX
2cm
. . . . . . . . . .YYYY
1cm
. . . . . . .AAAA

And I agree with the answer provided; Unit A must charge the closer enemy Y, even though distant enemy X has a greater frontage, because A and Y mutually ZoC each other. Once in contact, A will conform onto Y moving out of the ZoC of X

Commodore · Post� le: Lun Mai 16, 2016 7:40 pm Sujet du message:

chris6 · Vétéran Inscrit le: 02 D�c 2013 Messages: 198

Many thx for the clearing! The example in the post from Ramses II is what I meant. And the solution is how I told my group it has to be played, but reading about "most threatening unit" and moving in ZOC I was getting a little unsure afterwards.

THX again for discussing this for me!
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Wohnort Limburg 30 Km nördlich von Frankfurt
Living at Limburg 30 Km north of Frankfurt
lieu de résidence Limburg 30 Km nord de Frankfurt

Hazelbark · Magister Militum Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1671

Ramses II · Post� le: Mar Mai 17, 2016 1:04 am Sujet du message:

Hmm.

Hazelbark, the unit cannot slide. However, I think you are suggesting that if the unit has sufficient movement, it could choose to turn (left in the diagram) and then wheel past the nearer enemy, moving closer or into contact with the most threatening (further) enemy.
(Note, the unit would make the same movement if "Y" were terrain rather than a unit)

If so, I believe that you are correct that the player is complying with the rules on movement in enemy ZoC by increasing the alignment of the unit with the most threatening enemy.

That said, I also think Commodore is right in saying that the unit must move relative to the greatest threat, but in doing so it may contact a different enemy in a legitimate way, at which point it ceases to charge the first unit and must instead conform on this other unit.

Either way, the ZoC rules do control what happens here and also limit player choice; a heavy infantry unit would not be able to do this convoluted manoeuvre because it does not have sufficient movement capacity.

Hazelbark · Magister Militum Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1671

Commodore · Post� le: Mer Mai 18, 2016 5:11 am Sujet du message:

Ramses II · Post� le: Mer Mai 18, 2016 3:13 pm Sujet du message:

Hazelbark · Magister Militum Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1671

HA.
I meant "you are correct. It was my error."
I was being very brief, apologies. We are in agreement on the rule that you cannot slide in a ZOC.

Ramses II · Post� le: Mer Mai 18, 2016 6:27 pm Sujet du message:

LOL. Your brevity included dropping the relevant comma. Smile

However, answering and amplifying the question gave me another thought. Consider the following diagram:-

. . . . . ¦
. . . XXXX
. . . . . ¦
. . . . . ======
. . . . AAAA

Here, units 'X' and 'A' are almost aligned and within each other's ZoC, but 'X' is in partly terrain that penalises A in melee.
Can 'A' turn and wheel forwards into contact with 'X' even though doing this reduces its alignment, thus?
The point being that Conforming specifically permits this contact, but does not detail the movement up to the contact.

. . . . . ¦
. . . XXXX
AAAA. ¦
. . . . . =====
. . . . . . . .

Note, after turning and wheeling (but before it advances forwards), 'A' occupies a position that is exactly adjacent to its original location. So this manoeuver would not contact the enemy where the units are totally aligned before moving, as wheeling more than 90 degrees is prohibited.