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AlanCutner
Tribun
Inscrit le: 03 Nov 2014 Messages: 732
Localisation: Scotland
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Posté le: Mar Sep 11, 2018 8:11 pm Sujet du message: Target Units in Charge |
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A unit charges straight forwards. In front of it is an enemy Light Cavalry with a Heavy Cavalry 1UD further back. Both are within reach of the charging unit. Are both of them 'target units' or just the Light Cavalry? If only the LC is a target unit and it evades I assume the charger would have to roll a variable move distance, and possibly not reach the heavy cavalry. |
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ethan
Signifer
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 350
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Posté le: Mar Sep 11, 2018 8:51 pm Sujet du message: |
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I think the FAQ has this covered.
Evade adjusted movement distance
Q : Page 40; what constitutes “all targets of a charge†for the purposes of a charging unit needing to roll an
adjusted move distance ?
A : When you declare a charge, you must specify the target and this must be in charge range. If all the
targets in charge range (ie the movement distance) evades, then you must adjust the movement distance
by rolling a dice. If the initial targets cannot evade, you don’t need to adjust the movement distance.
Example : you have a group of HI at 2 UD distance from HI enemy units, with LI enemy units in
between the two groups. If you charge the enemy HI units you don’t need to adjust the move distance
even if all LI evade. |
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AlanCutner
Tribun
Inscrit le: 03 Nov 2014 Messages: 732
Localisation: Scotland
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Posté le: Mar Sep 11, 2018 9:01 pm Sujet du message: |
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So in my example (LC in front of HC) there are three possibilities
1. The LC are declared as the target. If the LC evade the charger rolls for a variable move, and may contact the HC.
2. The HC are declared as the target. If the LC evade the charger hits the HC without a variable move.
3. The HC are declared as the target. If the LC don't evade they are hit by the charger, and the HC are unaffected.
Is this correct? |
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ethan
Signifer
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 350
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Posté le: Mar Sep 11, 2018 9:12 pm Sujet du message: |
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I believe you can do the following:
Declare only the LC as a target. It evades you roll variable. You can stop after moving 2UD or go up to the full variable distance (possibly contacting the HC behind).
Declare the LC as a target and the HC as a target (this is functionally the same as declaring the HC as a target). Both are in charge range so after the LC evades you just contact the HC. This is the same as the example from the FAQ. |
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AlanCutner
Tribun
Inscrit le: 03 Nov 2014 Messages: 732
Localisation: Scotland
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Posté le: Mar Sep 11, 2018 9:39 pm Sujet du message: |
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So just to be clear, it is possible to declare a charge on something you might not contact, eg the HC if the LC don't evade. |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015 Messages: 1201
Localisation: London
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Posté le: Mar Sep 11, 2018 9:44 pm Sujet du message: |
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Correct Ethan.
There are effectively two scenarios here : - You declare the HC (and LC) as the target since they are both within the normal move distance. Both 'targets' then have the option of evading or standing still. Should they not evade, the chargers will contact the nearest unit.
- The targets evade, revealing another unit, and the chargers throw high on their adjusted movement which would bring them into contact with this new unit. In this case the new target may also choose to evade even though it was not one of the original targets
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madaxeman
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014 Messages: 1520
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
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Posté le: Mer Sep 12, 2018 8:19 am Sujet du message: |
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Ramses II a écrit: | Correct Ethan.
There are effectively two scenarios here : - You declare the HC (and LC) as the target since they are both within the normal move distance. Both 'targets' then have the option of evading or standing still. Should they not evade, the chargers will contact the nearest unit.
- The targets evade, revealing another unit, and the chargers throw high on their adjusted movement which would bring them into contact with this new unit. In this case the new target may also choose to evade even though it was not one of the original targets
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Ethan is suggesting that you can choose to "declare" only the LH as the target, even if the HC are also within range.
That differs from my reading of the FAQ, which is "everything in range counts as the target of a charge, you only roll a VMD if everything in range evades - otherwise you clatter into anything that's in range (meaning there is no VMD)" _________________ www.madaxeman.com |
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brothercrow
Barbare
Inscrit le: 09 Nov 2017 Messages: 28
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Posté le: Mer Sep 12, 2018 9:53 am Sujet du message: |
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Tim, that is my interpretation as well...with the 'Illegal Contact' provisio on page 52 so that Light Cavalry or Light Infantry can't clatter into the front of Heavy troops when chasing away skirmishers (unless you are a Light Horse with Impact of course!).
Graeme,
Durham. |
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Ballista
Légionaire
Inscrit le: 15 Jan 2018 Messages: 121
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Posté le: Mer Sep 12, 2018 10:49 am Sujet du message: |
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So how would this apply if the enemy HC did not have to be charged - eg Say impetuous MI/HI charge LH who evade but they do not have to charge the HC ? |
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brothercrow
Barbare
Inscrit le: 09 Nov 2017 Messages: 28
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Posté le: Mer Sep 12, 2018 10:56 am Sujet du message: |
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It would be the units choice to charge - he doesn't have to charge any mounted impetuously if he is foot. If he chooses to charge, that's his problem!
Also see the box at the top of page 42, an Impetuous HI unit facing LI will not have to make an impetuous charge if there is a mounted unit behind the LI within 3UD (it's potential full move distance).
Graeme,
Durham |
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fdunadan
Tribun
Inscrit le: 12 Juin 2009 Messages: 978
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Posté le: Mer Sep 12, 2018 3:08 pm Sujet du message: |
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Yes, the impetuous foot are not impetuous versus mounted, so it(s the player choice to charge or not. If there is a unit (even HCav, Kn or El) in the path of the charge and at distance (2UD if heavy or 3 UD if medium), then the unit must make contact: since impetuous troops must make a full move if they charge.
The variable roll is made only if all potentials target evade. _________________ Audentes fortuna iuvat. |
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1611
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Posté le: Mer Sep 12, 2018 4:24 pm Sujet du message: |
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AlanCutner a écrit: | So just to be clear, it is possible to declare a charge on something you might not contact, eg the HC if the LC don't evade. |
No.
You declare the charge.
Only the units initially hit by the charge react at first --stand or evade. (usually one or a single group) (theoretically you simultaneously meet two units)
If the target evades, the chargers path out to their normal move seeks a new target. Then that target decides to stand or evade.
repeat sequentially until all units make their decision.
So you only react if you could be contacted by the charger.
Then the charger executes the charge distance per rules.
So a unit does not test if there is an intervening unit. If that intervening unit stands, the one behind does not test. |
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AlanCutner
Tribun
Inscrit le: 03 Nov 2014 Messages: 732
Localisation: Scotland
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Posté le: Mer Sep 12, 2018 4:30 pm Sujet du message: |
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This leaves us with two interpretations - Ethan and Tim. The difference is whether you can declare a charge on just the nearest enemy units rather than all units in range. |
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1611
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Posté le: Mer Sep 12, 2018 6:33 pm Sujet du message: |
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AlanCutner a écrit: | So in my example (LC in front of HC) there are three possibilities
1. The LC are declared as the target. If the LC evade the charger rolls for a variable move, and may contact the HC.
2. The HC are declared as the target. If the LC evade the charger hits the HC without a variable move.
3. The HC are declared as the target. If the LC don't evade they are hit by the charger, and the HC are unaffected.
Is this correct? |
1. NO. VMD not required
2. Yes.
3. Yes. like 2 depends on LC decision.
You cannot actually declare the HC as the actual target. the LC intervenes. Practically you can say the HC is the target and then if the LC evades you follow that path.
If you reverse the HC in front and LC behind, under the logic of declaring the rear unit a target, it would not have any option to evade because it cannot be contacted because the intervening unit cannot evade.
Further if both targets were LC. The rear LC would not take an evade roll if the front LC stands. |
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1611
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Posté le: Mer Sep 12, 2018 6:36 pm Sujet du message: |
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AlanCutner a écrit: | This leaves us with two interpretations - Ethan and Tim. The difference is whether you can declare a charge on just the nearest enemy units rather than all units in range. |
I am Oz, obey me.
Ethan is not correct. You do not halt at 2 UD and then deny the option of other units to evade.
declare charge
resolve all evaders in sequence of being a target.
Then decide on chargers move.
I have written. |
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