Art De La Guerre

[Darthvegeta800]

I have yet to pick up a copy of this ruleset.
One of the deciding factor will be what Samurai army list is in it.
Is it the early era (Taira - Minamoto)? Or later, aimed at the Sengoku Jidai?
And how does the list cope with the unique approach to war typical of early era Samurai?

[Jhykronos]

There are 2 lists:

Samurai: 1041-1350
Later Samurai: 1350-1550

Neither list is particularly accurate for Japanese warfare, IMO. You have the usual discredited chestnuts of separate units of Samurai and followers, bodies of Samurai cavalry classified the same as their Mongol opponents, formed bodies of Samurai foot archers in the early period, et cetera. Plus some apparent confusion about when spears or naginatas* became prominent among both Samurai and followers.

*- Not to mention the amusing habit of rules authors following WRG to classify the naginata as a 2HW or "Heavy Weapon"
_________________
- Let the Die be Cast

[Darthvegeta800]

[Jhykronos]

[Darthvegeta800]

Thanks. I may pick it up or i might not. I'll consider it anyway.
Game certainly has a lot of lists.

[Hazelbark]

Well as a player of the game and rules. Let me say the Samurai armies are very interesting. They look to give good historical match up in what is honestly an era of civil wars. But the lists also are pretty viable against ahistorical opponents as well.

Since you expressed interest in the early period.
They get good but not outstanding command and control.
The mounted Samurai are quite good. There are primarily a shooting force. but the way the RULES work this cavalry attacking most of the samurai infantry will get the advantage of impact as well. In a historical the Samurai cavalry are inferior in a charge as Alexander's companions and significantly vulnerable to knights. The best Mongol cavalry is better than the best samurai cavalry.

The Foot Samurai can be taken in two styles.
A mixed formation that has strong shooting and reasonable close combat capabilities or a better close combat ability that if winning inflict more damage. The later can be taken in a denser formation that resists cavalry onslaughts.

The followers with Yari and bow are absolutely weaker troops. Likely to lose to Samurai.

The list has associated small amounts of fortifications, Emishi cavalry, Warrior monks and stampeding cattle. None of which are powerful but all have a useful purpose if you bring some of them.

Certainly the earlier list (1041-1350) I've outlined is the better of the two and viable against similar time period oppoents.

An army would be about 14-18 units of infantry and 4-8 of mounted.

[Hazelbark]

[Darthvegeta800]

Quite informative feedback.
Many thanks.

Have any of you tried the list or lists in practice?

[Hazelbark]

Every time I see an akira kurosawa move I want to build this army, but I resist. That would generally be an even later period.

I've fought against them twice in ahistorical fights. Two club mates run them.

[belinconnux]

Soranon play a Samouraï list with success.
_________________
Hasta la victoria Siempre!
Peter Lord dobeul impact

[Darthvegeta800]

[Soranon]

[Darthvegeta800]

A beautiful army!
Do you feel they play in a historically correct fashion?
Are they playable for a beginner of the system?

[Soranon]

[Darthvegeta800]

Awesome. Thanks for the info.

Et féliciations à un joueur accompli!

I'd probably fuck it up knowing myself. But visually Early and late Samurai armies appeal to me greatly. I'm quite tempted by the early one as it is far more unique than the other Samurai stuff I have. Few people ever seem to wargame with early era Samurai in any system.