Art De La Guerre

[AlanCutner]

Query from a game at Schiltron today. Units A and B are aligned with a 1UD gap between them. A is in combat with X. Unit Y moves into contact alongside unit X, contacting the front corners of both A and B. Does Y stay in place counting as support against A, or does it have to slide over and conform to unit B?

[Hazelbark]

I see nothing that would require it to conform away from the legal support position.

[AlanCutner]

It was ruled otherwise in my game.

[Ramses II]

On what basis? 

Y makes a simultaneous contact with both A & B, so effectively may choose to stay put in support, or to conform. This is exactly the same situation as if Y was already in position and had destroyed the unit to its front in the previous turn.


If X was absent, I would agree that Y must shift one way or the other, but not under these circumstances. Also, it is clear is that Y may not pass through the gap since B Does not have an opponent (see the latest FAQ).

[Hazelbark]

[AlanCutner]

Thanks all. Was concerned I'd been playing it wrong for several years. Happily it didn't have any major impact on the game in the end.

[harryKonst]

In ADLG the corner to corner contact with the front of an unengaged enemy unit is considered a charge.So, unit Y did a charge on unit B. Since its a legal frontal charge it has to conform to unit B, according to the rules. The supporting position is irrelevant now.The fight is between units B and Y. You cant make a corner to corner contact with a front of an enemy unit which was not in melee and act as a support to another friendly fighting unit. You charged the unengaged enemy unit and that is your melee.

[Ramses II]

If Y made corner contact with only B, you would be right that it has to conform. However it contacts both A and B, so there is a choice to fight either unit. In doing so it must comply with the rules in respect to the unit it is fighting; if it chooses to fight B, then it must conform, if it chooses to fight A then it is in support. 

In the opposing turn, B would have the choice to conform on Y, to move elsewhere, or to stay where it is. 

[lionelrus]

[Ballista]

That's a better clarification from Ramses was beginning to think we had been playing it wrong all this time.

[harryKonst]

I think you are making a mistake here, but lets see if you are right and I am wrong. In page 36 we have the definition of charge.The author says that ' its a move in which a unit contacts an enemy, which is NOT already in melee, with its front edge(even by single corner)' So, in our case Y makes a charge on B but not on A.
The next sentence of the rule is; 'It stops once contact with the enemy is made.The charging unit MUST then conform.(see page 52).' In page 52 the author writes the exceptions to conforming which are two:1, when the conforming forces one unit to leave the table, or 2, when entering penalising terrain. Not our situation. So we have a charge and a mandatory conforming of unit Y according to the rules. There is no rule that excludes a unit from such a conformation, when it also comes into supporting contact with another enemy unit (unit A in our case). Unless I'm missing something I believe there is no choice for the charger. Tell me if you know anything else.

[Ramses II]

I understand what you are saying, and agree that it applies to a “charge”. However, in this case there are two ‘situations’ that are equally valid, which allows the player to choose which one he intends to use. 

I would add that if Y contacted B on part of it’s front edge (ie  because B was closer than 1UD to A, so not just corner to corner), then you would be correct that it must conform because it would have to fight B. It is the corner contact with B that causes this situation where there is a choice. 

[harryKonst]

As I get it from the rulebook both situations are actually the same. They are both valid charges.The choice option is not written in the rulebook unless you can indicate me a page or a clarification that says so. If I'm wrong there must be something written. On the other hand on page 50 under the title ''Continuing a Charge'' the rule says that ''When one or more units of a charging group contact the enemy the other units of the group who have not contacted an enemy can continue their charge up to their maximum movement. The charge stops at the moment an enemy is contacted. This could cause the group to BECOME SEPARATED but the CP cost does not change.Once the units are in contact with an enemy, they MUST each conform.'' No choice option there for the unit which is also in a supporting position to count as support of the next unit and not conform. On the next page the picture of the Cvs charging shows that they conform with no other option. Look at it please.

[Hazelbark]

[Hazelbark]