Art De La Guerre

[Rafa Tortosa]

Hello,
Please,
If you roll a 6 to remove the town piece on a hill, can you remove the town and the hill or just one of the two?
Thank you

[Hazelbark]

A village including its hill cannot be adjusted

p 75, terrain adjustment right column 2nd full sentence. Village (including a hill) are on the prohibited from adjustment.

[Rafa Tortosa]

Thank you very much!

[KevinD]

A related question on hills & villages:

If the defender chooses a village and a hill to go with it for an extra terrain pick, but fails the 4+ roll to get the village, the rules say he must choose another terrain piece. But what happens to the hill? Can the defender (1) choose another terrain piece, or (2) does he keep the hill, or (3) does he lose the hill/terrain pick altogether?

Another (related) terrain question:

This question brings up the related question - On the “Placing sequence” on p 74, in which bullet point does each player dice for their waterways, rivers and villages? When does one dice to see if they get a village (or river/waterway)? Does the Defender pick all pieces he wants and then dice to see what he gets and replace (only) the ones he missed the roll for, followed by the attacker doing the same (if he wants a waterway or river and the defender failed his roll for one, if any)?

Or is some other sequence of picking and dicing allowed? Can the defender for example dice for a village/river/waterway first, then pick his other pieces knowing what the result(s) of that die roll was(were)? (If you get these you might want different selections, or just to choose a skinnier piece of terrain to make sure it will fit around the village/waterway/river if they end up in the same sector.) Does the attacker get to see what pieces the defender (successfully) choose before he pucks his own?

When a player picks a piece does he have to present a specific piece of terrain (with whatever dimensions it physically possesses) or can he just say “a field” (for example) when picking and then produce the actual piece (field in this example) prior to (or even after) dicing for its location?

I assume the rules require a player to present an actual physical piece of terrain when he picks it in the first or second bullet point on p 74 (and not just some wadded up piece of felt that the other player doesn’t really know what size or shape it is) when he selects his terrain (prior to either player placing terrain).

[madaxeman]

Given - as you've pointed out - there are no restrictions on 'how' and 'when' you declare your terrain picks written into the rules, it appears that it is the players choice as to whether they pick all of their pieces up front before dicing for a river or waterway or village (on or off a hill), or alternatively whether they instead dice for the piece that might not make it onto the table, see the outcome, and then choose all the rest.

Given the first option inevitably creates all of the possible Barkeresque problems for the small handful of pedantically challenged out there amongst the player community (true of any wargame) all of which you have just ennunciated, whereas the latter makes all of these possible problems utterly moot, my guess is that doing things the way set out in your second option* is much better all round, on the basis that shooting oneself in the foot, either literally or semantically is not something to be done where it can easily be avoided


*assuming both players do actually wish get past the terrain deployment phase without an hours-long and ultimately pointless semantic Barkerese debate** and start moving toys around

** there are some out there who prefer the semantic arguments to the actual game. Hard to imagine I know, but I'm sure it's true..
_________________
www.madaxeman.com

[Za Otlichiye]

My understanding of Hazelbark's answer to me in the other thread is that there is no sequentiality involved.
You choose 2-4 pieces, then you make just one roll for any village or water feature you choose (or substitute).

The question on revealing the piece is interesting. Can a shark gain an advantage by playing a 6UD diameter woods vs a 2x3 depending upon which sector they roll? I have no idea, but at least it gives an excuse for some terrain modelling extravagance!

[Hazelbark]

Here is how it is done in events normally in many places. This is a telling of habit, not rules, but complies with spirit of rules.

Defender picks terrain.
This is usually as they say it they toss the actual piece they intend to place on table often in a misshapen pile. They say I am rolling for a Coast or a village, they execute those processes. Generally people that are thinking they want different shapes based on rolls, do their rolls before they announce the rest.
Customarily people let the player shuffle about until they conform they are set. Just no do over on dice rolls. i.e. tossing out a hill and saying no I want brush is ok.
The Defender confirms they are set.
Now Attacker selects
same friendly process.

Both players with a noise or gesture confirm that they are ready for placement.

This is really very friendly and I included first hand knowledge of top table competitions in world championships even when people do not share the ability to talk in the same language.

This is not hard. It is easy.

[babyshark]

[KevinD]

If the defender chooses a village and a hill (and rolls 4+), this counts as two of his picks 2-4 picks. Does it also reduce the number of hills available to be picked from those listed in the table on p. 74? (The wording on p. 75 might be read to say the hill taken with a village does count towards the number of available hills, but does it?)

For example, if the defender in the plains chose a village on a hill (and rolled 4+), does this count as the only hill available in the plains, or can either player choose another hill?

[Ramses II]

Re-reading the fourth para of placing a village, I would say that once a village is successfully diced for, the hill it is placed on is additional to the number of hills available in the region. The relevant text is similar to that used to cover hills with terrain available in the region. 

Eg. In the plains, you could have two hills, one of which is covered by a village. 

That said, I have never seen anyone use a hill village as this effectively removes one piece of terrain from the table. 

[Zoltan]

[KevinD]

[Ramses II]

Guys, I cannot remember any game where a 'hill top village' was ever used, so this question is somewhat moot. Furthermore, it reduces the number of terrain pieces placed on the table while reducing the number of pieces that the player can adjust.

However for completeness, the relevant text is

[Zoltan]

@Ramses - I've seen a village on a hill several times - potentially a great strongpoint.

Aha, you are saying that "the player may choose to place the village on a gentle hill" is NOT the same as "the player may select a hill on which to place the village". More a case of "having successfully selected the village, the. player may opt to present it on a gentle hill. In this case, the combined terrain counts as two selections but its placement is diced for once."

Thus under Ramses' view there can be 2 gentle hills in plains - one selected and one, ahem, "opted for" (aka "chosen") as part of a combined hill/village.

[Ramses II]

Correct Zoltan. 

The ‘hill village’ counts as a village for the purposes of terrain selection and placement, but acts as two selections reducing both the number of additional pieces that can be selected and the potential number of terrain adjustments.