| Auteur |
Message |
MarkC
Javelinier
Inscrit le: 19 Juil 2018
Messages: 15
Localisation: Australia
|
 Posté le: Mar Jan 04, 2022 7:01 am Sujet du message: Rolling the dice for army corps in ambush or flank march |
 |
Hi all
On the last paragraph of p77 about ambushes, the rule book states
| Citation: |
Note: If an entire army corps is placed in ambush, the player can roll the die each game-turn to determine CP (even if not used). This can confuse the opponent who does not then know if the corps is in ambush or on a flank march
|
There is nothing I could see under flank marches (p79) about rolling a die even if you don't have one.
Does this imply that when rolling for command points you tell your opponent you are rolling for either a flank march or an entire corps in ambush, and only if you get a score that would be a flank march coming on you advise if it is a flank march or not?
From the wording of the rules, it suggests that this option is only available if you do have an entire corps in ambush. That is, if you have a flank march and a couple of dummy ambushes you can't bluff that it is either a flank march or an ambush. If so, it seems pointless unless you have two commands starting off the table (one must be entirely in ambush, the other could either be in ambush or a flank march).
Have I understood things correctly?
Is this bluffing about whether you are rolling for a flank march or ambush something that players do (you could do it with just one command off the table in the hope that your opponent doesn't know you can only do this when the unit is in ambush), or is it considered gamey and likely to just slow the game down whilst the opponent reads the rules?
Thanks
Mark C |
|
| Revenir en haut de page |
|
|
Zoltan
Centurion
Inscrit le: 18 Jan 2015
Messages: 443
Localisation: Wellington, New Zealand
|
| Posté le: Mar Jan 04, 2022 8:32 am Sujet du message: |
|
See the responses to your Facebook post. Yes, bluffing between ambush and flank march is a handy strategem often used.
Just tell your opponent that you are rolling for a corps that they currently can’t see. Of course you’ll need to have an ambush marker deployed in suitable terrain for that bluff to work! |
|
| Revenir en haut de page |
|
|
Ballista
Légionaire
Inscrit le: 15 Jan 2018
Messages: 117
|
| Posté le: Mar Jan 04, 2022 10:49 am Sujet du message: |
|
If flank march has a Allied or Unreliable general then must also roll for him on the first game turn.
Pray it's not a 1 otherwise he needs to become reliable before flank march arrival can be rolled for.
If in ambush then need to either
Become reliable in normal way
If entire command in ambush then enemy must come within (to) 1UD of ambush marker. |
|
| Revenir en haut de page |
|
|
Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015
Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
|
| Posté le: Mer Jan 05, 2022 12:44 am Sujet du message: |
|
As the others have said, you declare that you are dicing for “off-table†(ie hidden) forces, but you do not need to specify exactly where it is.Â
If you have the misfortune to throw a “1â€, this is noted by both players, but you don’t need to reveal that the corps is unreliable at this point.
You then follow the procedure for an unreliable corps until you reveal its true nature when the corps arrives or is revealed in ambush. |
|
| Revenir en haut de page |
|
|
KevinD
Légat
Inscrit le: 23 Aoû 2021
Messages: 501
Localisation: Texas
|
| Posté le: Mer Jan 05, 2022 1:24 am Sujet du message: |
|
| Ramses II a écrit: | As the others have said, you declare that you are dicing for “off-table†(ie hidden) forces, but you do not need to specify exactly where it is.Â
If you have the misfortune to throw a “1â€, this is noted by both players, but you don’t need to reveal that the corps is unreliable at this point.
You then follow the procedure for an unreliable corps until you reveal its true nature when the corps arrives or is revealed in ambush. |
What if you have a command where some units are on the table but some others, including their unreliable commander, are in ambush. Do you have to reveal if the units on the table are part of an unreliable command before their commander dices the first time, or part a hesitant command after their ambushing commander rolls a 1 and becomes unreliable?
Basically, does the enemy get to know whether your troops are hesitant or unreliable if he can’t see their general?
P 78 says “The player describes the troops to his/her opponent at the time of placement on the table (type, quality, abilities…).â€
Should this description include whether their ambushing commander is unreliable?
I assume if the commander himself is on the table the player placing him must, as part of the description process, announce whether he is an ally or unreliable. |
|
| Revenir en haut de page |
|
|
lionelrus
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 21 Mar 2009
Messages: 4713
Localisation: paris
|
| Posté le: Mer Jan 05, 2022 5:02 pm Sujet du message: |
|
What is the interest having some troops hiden including general, and the others un hiden (don't know english word, sorry) in the same command?
_________________
"Quand on a pas de technique, faut y aller à la zob"
Perceval à Yvain et Gauvain. |
|
| Revenir en haut de page |
|
|
madaxeman
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014
Messages: 1474
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
|
| Posté le: Mer Jan 05, 2022 5:12 pm Sujet du message: |
|
| KevinD a écrit: | | Ramses II a écrit: | As the others have said, you declare that you are dicing for “off-table†(ie hidden) forces, but you do not need to specify exactly where it is.Â
If you have the misfortune to throw a “1â€, this is noted by both players, but you don’t need to reveal that the corps is unreliable at this point.
You then follow the procedure for an unreliable corps until you reveal its true nature when the corps arrives or is revealed in ambush. |
What if you have a command where some units are on the table but some others, including their unreliable commander, are in ambush. Do you have to reveal if the units on the table are part of an unreliable command before their commander dices the first time, or part a hesitant command after their ambushing commander rolls a 1 and becomes unreliable?
Basically, does the enemy get to know whether your troops are hesitant or unreliable if he can’t see their general?
P 78 says “The player describes the troops to his/her opponent at the time of placement on the table (type, quality, abilities…).â€
Should this description include whether their ambushing commander is unreliable?
I assume if the commander himself is on the table the player placing him must, as part of the description process, announce whether he is an ally or unreliable. |
African or European...?
_________________
www.madaxeman.com |
|
| Revenir en haut de page |
|
|
KevinD
Légat
Inscrit le: 23 Aoû 2021
Messages: 501
Localisation: Texas
|
| Posté le: Mer Jan 05, 2022 8:12 pm Sujet du message: |
|
| lionelrus a écrit: | | What is the interest having some troops hiden including general, and the others un hiden (don't know english word, sorry) in the same command? |
One reason is, if you don’t have to tell the opponent if they are unreliable or hesitant, it is to lure the enemy to getting close to them and making them reliable.
Another reason is you might want some Skirmishers out there to impede enemy double moves or the like, but you don’t want to reveal the composition or exact location of strike troops you are hiding. This might be even more important if you are hiding unusual (allied?) troops who add a capability your opponent is not expecting from your list.
Further, by placing just Skirmishers out there as the first command you deploy, you are not telegraphing a whole lot about your deployment, other than that you probably have an ambush. Thus can be particularly useful to a defender trying to negate the attacker’s advantage from deploying second.
The combination of all these possibilities just increases the enemy’s uncertainty added hopefully either causes him to delay attacks, thus surrendering the initiative, or make a rash move before he scouts out the situation, hopefully leading to a mistake you can take advantage of. |
|
| Revenir en haut de page |
|
|
lionelrus
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 21 Mar 2009
Messages: 4713
Localisation: paris
|
| Posté le: Mer Jan 05, 2022 8:51 pm Sujet du message: |
|
I see.
If the general is ambushed in deploiement plan, it's seem you don't have to reveal his nature.
_________________
"Quand on a pas de technique, faut y aller à la zob"
Perceval à Yvain et Gauvain. |
|
| Revenir en haut de page |
|
|
Za Otlichiye
Signifer
Inscrit le: 07 Sep 2021
Messages: 341
Localisation: Lovecraft country (and you Dan?)
|
| Posté le: Mer Jan 05, 2022 9:24 pm Sujet du message: |
|
| You have the more immediate problem of command range. If you have 2 (or 3) ambush markers, do you take the worst possibility? Do you leave little ? markers down and rescind them as need be, or do you just accept that all commands are out of range? |
|
| Revenir en haut de page |
|
|
KevinD
Légat
Inscrit le: 23 Aoû 2021
Messages: 501
Localisation: Texas
|
| Posté le: Mer Jan 05, 2022 11:40 pm Sujet du message: |
|
| Za Otlichiye a écrit: | | You have the more immediate problem of command range. If you have 2 (or 3) ambush markers, do you take the worst possibility? Do you leave little ? markers down and rescind them as need be, or do you just accept that all commands are out of range? |
When and if you want to move units on the table of that command, I would think you either have to treat them as out of command (though I’m not sure if even this is allowed) or place their commander on the table (i.e., reveal the ambush). |
|
| Revenir en haut de page |
|
|
madaxeman
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014
Messages: 1474
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
|
| Posté le: Jeu Jan 06, 2022 8:54 pm Sujet du message: |
|
| KevinD a écrit: | | Za Otlichiye a écrit: | | You have the more immediate problem of command range. If you have 2 (or 3) ambush markers, do you take the worst possibility? Do you leave little ? markers down and rescind them as need be, or do you just accept that all commands are out of range? |
When and if you want to move units on the table of that command, I would think you either have to treat them as out of command (though I’m not sure if even this is allowed) or place their commander on the table (i.e., reveal the ambush). |
p78. "All units (unless in Ambush) must be [deployed] in command range of their commander"
A commander in ambush is not deployed on table, so units of his/her command which are not also deployed in ambush will not be in command range of his base. You can't therefore deploy a general in ambush without also deploying his whole command there too.
(OK, it's a bit clunky, but if we all just accepted it at face value and agreed to move on we could at least stop wasting pixels trying to find yet more ever-increasingly obscure cheesy corner-case ways to try and squeeze every last living ounce of joy out of something / minimise the inherent risk of perhaps losing a game of toy soldiers [delete as appropriate] that actually should be welcomed and embraced simply as an inevitable 1 in 6 occurring part and parcel of playing with allied generals in ADLG)
_________________
www.madaxeman.com |
|
| Revenir en haut de page |
|
|
Za Otlichiye
Signifer
Inscrit le: 07 Sep 2021
Messages: 341
Localisation: Lovecraft country (and you Dan?)
|
| Posté le: Jeu Jan 06, 2022 9:43 pm Sujet du message: |
|
Well that's amusing  an extremely legalistic interpretation combined with a plea to avoid legalism...Sort of like like celebrating criminal insanity I guess... |
|
| Revenir en haut de page |
|
|
MC_Delicatessen
Auxiliaire
Inscrit le: 30 Juil 2020
Messages: 87
|
| Posté le: Ven Jan 07, 2022 11:29 am Sujet du message: |
|
I have a strategist
I have three ambushes
My 2-in-c is unreliable
My 2-in-c has 12 units
Each ambush has 4 of these units with the 2-in-c attached to one
I have not broken the rule at deployment
My 2-in-c rolls unreliable
One of the other ambushes is revealed by the enemy
I have now broken the rule because these 4 units are now â€deployed†out of command range (the 2-in-c is not on the table)
Panic panic panic
I think there are another 700 people on here who can come up with edge cases like this. They might miss out on a few games tho:) |
|
| Revenir en haut de page |
|
|
madaxeman
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014
Messages: 1474
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
|
| Posté le: Ven Jan 07, 2022 12:11 pm Sujet du message: |
|
| MC_Delicatessen a écrit: | I have a strategist
I have three ambushes
My 2-in-c is unreliable
My 2-in-c has 12 units
Each ambush has 4 of these units with the 2-in-c attached to one
I have not broken the rule at deployment
My 2-in-c rolls unreliable
One of the other ambushes is revealed by the enemy
I have now broken the rule because these 4 units are now â€deployed†out of command range (the 2-in-c is not on the table)
Panic panic panic
I think there are another 700 people on here who can come up with edge cases like this. They might miss out on a few games tho:) |
Your command will become reliable once any of its troops are discovered, and there is also no requirement for troops placed on table as a result of an ambush being discovered to be within command range of their general (p77).
So, nope, you have not inserted yourself quite far enough into the corner with this one to break the rules I'm afraid 
_________________
www.madaxeman.com |
|
| Revenir en haut de page |
|
|
|
FAQ
Rechercher
Liste des Membres
Groupes d'utilisateurs
S'enregistrer
Profil
Se connecter pour vérifier ses messages privés
Connexion
