Art De La Guerre

[hcaille]

Hello

For List 91 - German , if you choose Batavian Revolt option, you can have one German ally only as Chattes, Usipi or Mattiacci
This ally comply to the german list with 50% ratio
So if you take an Chattes ally, you must have 4-12 Heavy impetuous infantry
You cannot add LH javelin (as it is only for Tencteri)

Summary :
You have to choose the tribe of the CiC
Then you have all the troops available for this option
No troops specific to another tribe can be taken
Unless you choose an internal ally
In this case, you have to comply with the 50% ratio of an ally.

Example
Tencteri CiC
8-24 HI impetuous
0-2 LH Javelin
+ others troops allowed

Allied Batavian
4-12 MI impetuous
+ 50% of others troops allowed for Batavian

This exclude troops for Batavian Revolt as the CiC must be Batavian

[KevinD]

Thank you, Herve.

Just to clarify, in your final example you would have 8-24 HI Impetuous plus 4-12 MI Impetuous for a total of 12-36 Impetuous foot.

What if the CiC were still Tencteri but the ally were, say, Chatti. Would you then have 12 (8 Tencteri + 4 Chatti) to 36 (24 + 12) HI?

[A4]

Thank you all for good and interesting points made.

It is reassuring to see that nobody has found any rules specific to internal allies - I worried that I might have missed them.

In their absence, Kevin must be right in thinking that internal allies should be treated exactly like external allies.

To go back to my original question.

The Germans (list 91) are allowed 0-2 light infantry bow. There is nothing to stop both of these serving in the core German army (in the two commands that can be reliable).
If you took a Gallic external ally he could field a further 0-2 light infantry bow. Including one or two in the Gallic allied contingent would not bust the maximum of 2 a German army is allowed.

So:

If you took a German ally. There is nothing to stop both of the light infantry allowed in list 91 serving in your core German army (in the two commands that can be reliable).
A German internal ally could field a further 0-1 light infantry bow. Including one could not bust the maximum of 2 a German army is allowed, even though the resulting army would contain 3 light infantry bow.

As Kevin points out, the fact that the ally was internal equally means that it does not fulfil the minima set out in the German list (just as Gallic impetuous swordsmen in an allied command would not help fulfil the minimum of 8 given in the German list).

Of course, it is not possible to tell at a distance, the author's intent. An earlier set of rules to which ADLG bears some resemblance (tho it is a huge improvement on them) did distinguish between internal and external allies. But if such rules are wanted (and to my mind, they are not) they need to be popped-in.

Alan

[Mark G Fry]

[Ramses II]

Yes Steve, Hervé is saying that ‘internal’ allies follow the rules on P87 and may take 50% of the units from the specified list (here #91). So the allied corps must take 4-12 impetuous infantry and may have 0-3 German cavalry additional to those in the main corps. 

However it is less clear how we use the last three units for the Batavian revolt; can they be taken with the main Batavian corps, or must they be part of the specified ‘internal’ allied corps and therefore halved. 

It is also unclear how these principles apply to other lists. Eg #89 Gallic which has two potential allies - Ariovistus German allies, or Ligurian allies. Are these allies also subject to P87, and the relevant lines halved - so for example, does Ariovistus German corps take 0-2 or 0-4 German horsemen ?

[KevinD]

Not halved. These allies have already been adjusted and you use the printed numbers. See list 36 where the max 1 option could never be used and is thus a waste of ink if halved. Or Medieval Spanish (239) who have 0-3 and 1-3 for allowed numbers. Are these really restricted to 1 unit? Why write 1 or 3 if it would be halved and rounded down? Similarly, are the Highlander’s in the Scots (232) restricted to 2 units of MI? Is the upgrade 0-1 Galwegian Ally for the Scots Isles and Highlanders (187) to Elite similarly a pointless line? For the Samurai (221), why even include 0-1 Mounted Warrior Monks* when it will be halved and rounded down to 0? The author just felt like wasting space and ink on something not eligible to ever be used? Clearly, for these allies listed as a subsection of another, their mins and maxs have already been adjusted.

[Neep]

I agree with Kevin. The German tribes are serving double duty, both as the army or as an ally of a different tribe-based army. The Gallic allies exist only as allies of the Gauls.
Can the ex-legionaries be used with the Chatti, Usipi, or Mattiaci? My guess it that like the CinC they must be part of the Batavian commands, but it's not stated.
Odd that you can include a commander with the ex-legionaries?

[Neep]

Just for fun, here are the 11 tribes:
Cimbri, Teutons, Marcomanni - basic list
Usipi, Mattiaci - can ally with revolt
Chatti - more elites, can ally with revolt
Quadi - Samatian allies
Tencteri - LH
Sarmatians-Suevi - Heavy cavalry, Samatian allies
Cherusci - medium swordsmen
Batavians - like Cherusci but with revolt option