Art De La Guerre

[Mark G Fry]

[Andy Fyfe]

[Mark G Fry]

But surely there is a general rules principle here. Which is that if any part of a units base is in terrain, then the whole unit (base) is considered to be within the terrain.
That is how it works in melee, so why would it be any different for shooting?

I think the whole 'front-edge' thing is a red-herring and confusing.
I totally understand the recent FAQ around fortifications - as that this correcting an obvious anomaly - but Fortifications are not Terrain.

With regards to Woods, Plantations and Villages on steep hills - we have always played it that you don't double up the disadvantage as it seemed realistic that once you are disadvantaged by terrain you cannot be double or multiple disadvantaged. Woods, Plantations or Villages provide cover from line of sight (@ 1UD or over) and any shooters will already be disadvantaged by being on the Steep Hill.

I think this thread is making things far too complex (IMHO)

[Neep]

Mark, there is nothing deeper than what you note. Either Plantation has a one-off exception, or shooting location is calculated differently from melee location. Or something else.
Most of the time players will avoid having half the unit in terrain anyway, but this question can only be resolved by fiat.

[Hazelbark]

[Hazelbark]

[Andy Fyfe]

[Andy Fyfe]

Dan, just to be sure I understand:

1. LI shooting from terrain which provides cover receive no negative modifier to their shooting for being in that terrain or shooting through that terrain?

2. Non-LI shooting from terrain which provides cover receive a total of a -1 modifier to their shooting for being in that terrain and shooting through that terrain?

[Mark G Fry]

[Zoltan]

[Neep]

Andy, you are asking a subtle question that can easily be misunderstood.

Page 58 is very clear. The terrain LI is in never causes a penalty to the LI's shooting.

But, if the target is in cover then any shooter is penalized. And on page 59 we find that that being in cover means the line of sight passes through the cover.

This means that if the LI is a millimeter inside the edge of a village, all targets are in cover.
This also means that if heavy troop shooter is a millimeter inside a plantation, targeting an enemy on the open, it gets a -2 for shooting from cover and shooting through cover.
Page 70 says a target point on the edge of cover is in cover.


This is what is written. I don't pretend to know what was intended.

[Neep]

I have avoided continuing to flog the original question despite being unclear on the answer. But review has been a revelation.
I, along with others, have mistakenly assumed the rules talk about a shooter in difficult terrain. But they do not. Page 58, 71, and 72 all talk about shooting from difficult terrain.
So, what is from? Well, the only definition that might apply is on page 70 where shooting from cover is defined by the shooting edge being in (or on) cover. Thus by analogy, a unit can be in a village or woods but can shoot unpenalized if the shooting edge is entirely outside that terrain.
Of course, this probably requires a look at the original French.

[Zoltan]

From, in, potato, potarto.

1. Is the shooter's shooting edge fully in terrain that provides cover - yes or no?

2. Does the shooter's line of sight pass through terrain that provides cover to the target - yes or no?

3. Is the amount of terrain providing cover equal to, or less than, 1 UD - yes or no?

Examples:

LI shooting from wood's edge to target in the open: no penalty in addition to base shooting factor (-1)

All other shooters shooting from wood's edge to target in the open: -1 penalty in addition to base shooting factor

EDITED LI in wood shooting at target in wood 1 UD away: -1 for shooting at target in cover in addition to base factor (-1), so total -2

All other shooters in wood shooting at target in wood 1 UD away: -1 penalty for shooting from/in cover and -1 penalty for target in cover; so -2 in addition to base shooting factor.

Sheesh!

[Neep]

[Zoltan]