Art De La Guerre

[SteveR]

I had an interesting one come up today.

I charged a heavy chariot impact with a light chariot with armor. I also contacted the heavy chariot on the flank with a light infantry in melee support to take away his impact. So far so good. 2:1 in my favor

But then outrageous and unfair dice rolls resulted in me taking a couple of cohesion losses.

1. The light chariot considered disengaging. However LI is not permitted to disengage from mounted in this case. (P40) So if the LCH did this, as I read it, that would have made the remaining LI the main unit in melee in open terrain and so destroyed automatically (P62)

2. So I stayed in place and counted on using luck as a strategy. The strategy failed and the Light Chariot died during in his move.

Which brings us to page 69. Pursuit. Second bullet. INSTEAD OF PURSUING the victorious unit must immediately conform to the enemy on its flank. In this case the Light Infantry which does not seem to be permitted to evade. It is already in combat and not a "new" enemy being contacted. It may not disengage so it is forced to stay there an die it seems.

Did we play this correctly?

[KevinD]

I sort of thought you could evade (if evade capable) if the enemy conforms into you…

[Neep]

I have an impression, from discussion rather than the rules book, that you can break contact (by a millimeter) in this situation.

[SteveR]

Thank you Neep and Kevin.

The breaking contact slightly was a V3 thing and is not in V4 that I am aware of.

Page 51 "Conforming Units already in Contact" says you may evade if an enemy conforms onto you and gives the case of Melee Results as one of the causes so I think may answer the Q2 case even if P51 is not referenced in the Pursuit section

Still not sure about what happens to LI in contact with a flank if the main unit disengages. Technically they are still in melee and become the main unit so I think they would be destroyed if left behind by their swifter brethren.

[Zoltan]

It’s your turn and you disengage your LCh leaving your LI in contact with the side edge of the enemy HCh. It’s now melee phase.

P.63, right column Destruction of light infantry, first bullet point: “If a light infantry unit is the main unit of a melee in open terrain against a unit of …HCh….. it is Routed automatically.”

[Ramses II]

Agreed Zoltan, if the Lch disengages the enemy Hch would conform on the LI and automatically destroy it. 

If the Lch stays put and is destroyed in the enemy’s turn, the Hch may not pursue forwards because it has not destroyed all it’s opponents (the LI is still fighting on a flank), so the Hch conform instead (p52), destroying the LI as well (in the next turn)

However, if the LI were in simple support rather than melee support, then the LI would evade (p47) avoiding their immediate destruction and the Hch would pursue forwards. 

Moral :- don’t put LI into melee support in the open . . . .

[Neep]

The HCh cannot conform until its turn. The LI would remain in the HCh flank becoming the main unit in the melee phase. The question is whether the LI has enough natural initiative that the exception on page 54 should be extended to them in this situation. or if the choice for the LCh to abandon them should be penalized.

[Ramses II]

[Neep]

I'm not suggesting the LI disengage. Rather whether the exception on page 54 might apply:

Conforming light infantry
If light infantry are in a position where they must conform to heavy troops that automatically destroy them, they are moved instead of conforming. This has no CP cost and is up to one UD in any direction. If a LI cannot break contact it is automatically destroyed in the next combat phase.

Arguably the LI is in a position where they must conform, even though they are already fully conformed.

[Ramses II]

Again, No. 

The LI are already in melee support against the flank of the Hch. Consequently, the LI are not conforming here, so p54 does not apply. 

[Neep]

Well, not after the LCh leaves

Suppose the LI were not in melee support, but rather simple support. [This of course begs the question whether the LI could disengage with the LCh as a group.] Be that as it may, if the LCh leaves, and LI remains in a simple support position. Then page 51 Conforming units already in contact appears to kick in and permit the 1UD free move.

So why not when previously in melee support? (By page 51, it appears that unit now "in melee" is not subject to mandatory conformance. But why the inconsistency?)

My underlying concern is that "in a position where they must conform" is a slippery phrase that could be made much clearer.

[Ramses II]

The short answer is “because that is what the rules say”, quite clearly IMO.

Basically this boils down to the difference between a unit being in Simple support as opposed to Melee support, and how these terms translate to the physical realities of combat. 

In my personal view, a unit in Melee support is committed to physically fighting the enemy, so it is in close quarters combat with the enemy and is therefore harder to extract. Whereas a unit in Simple support is merely ’distracting’ the attention of some part of the enemy unit and is not yet fully committed to combat. 

This perspective may help explain why the rules prevent LI committed to physical combat from disengaging away from faster enemy, while allowing them to evade from an enemy that has destroyed an adjacent friendly unit. 

[Hazelbark]

[SteveR]

[Neep]

Nice catch, Dan. I think that proves Gavin's case.

OK next question!

LI is conformed upon during the Pusuit segment by heavy troops, either turning to flank/rear or contacted by a pursuit move.
It looks like page 47 implies (but doesn't spell it out) they must evade if they can. If they cannot, it looks like they are immediately Routed just as a unit who loses its last point to flank/rear contact during Pursuit.

I can't see any possibility beyond page 51 Conforming units already in contact that LI would ever qualify for their 1UD escape. Maybe some weird geometry where conforming pulls them out of favorable terrain.