Art De La Guerre

[SteveR]

An enemy Bow Mediocre was exactly at the edge of a field. It had a single cohesion loss on it.

When an enemy is at the edge of a terrain feature the rules say that combat it assumed to be happening in the terrain. Page 64 ""the attaking (sic) unit is considered to partially enter the enemy's terrain piece"

Light Infantry may charge LMI in terrain if the enemy is disordered.

Page 42 "the entire front edge of the LI must end in terrain after conformation"

So - may I charge the Bow with a Light Infantry unit?

[Neep]

I don't think so. Attackers on a terrain edge are considered to be in both terrains and use the most penalizing. Which would be an auto-rout for the LI. I think the intent is to disallow a charge into an auto-rout.

[SteveR]

Interesting.

Page 64 says that, as I quoted, the attacking unit is considered to partially enter the terrain piece. Which would put the entire front edge in terrain and so be a legal attack.

However the next sentence says "the most penalizing terrain modifier" is applied to that unit. And open terrain is more penalizing than fields to light infantry. But I'm not sure that is what is intended by the existence of that sentence.

[KevinD]

It seems a bit ambiguous. I’d like to see it clarified.

If the LMI want to prevent the charge they could edge out of terrain slightly, but then be vulnerable to heavies out there. It seems like if they are on the edge claiming they are “in” when fight heavies but “out” when when facing lights is trying to have their cake and eat it too.

[SteveR]

Thank you for the thought Kevin.

This is literally an edge case. I think it is an edge case addressed in the rules. But I wanted to make sure.


If the Bow were 15mm back into the woods I dont think anyone would object to the LI charging them. After all the errata says

"Troops that must evade (p 47) and Destruction of light infantry (page 62)

When it is indicated that LI must be “in terrain” or “in open terrain”, consider the portion of the LI's base that is contacted by the enemy after conformation. If the contacted part of the LI's base is in rough or difficult terrain, the LI does not have to evade." (and is presumably not destroyed - that is the page 62 part)

So the key is where is the front edge. And the rules say the front edge is considered to partially enter the terrain.

I did it but it felt cheesy. That said, the cowardly bow hiding in the field to be immune from my Heavy Spear were also relying on cheese. Saying my brave spear had to move in to get him.

[lionelrus]

[SteveR]

Thank you Lionel

[Hazelbark]

[Neep]

The issue needs a bit more thought. There are two questions: can the LI charge? and what is the melee like?

I think the spirit/intend of the rules is that LI cannot charge into an auto-rout and that LI must try to evade an auto-rout when charged.

When is combat between LI and an enemy LMI at the very edge of a woods in open terrain an auto-rout? Per page 64 if the LI charges, then it is considered in both terrains and must take the more penalizing. That is the open terrain, so auto-rout. The problem of the front edges being coincident with the edge of the woods is irrelevant.

When if the LMI charges? If the LI is in the woods, then clearly the LMI suffers the terrain penalty and the LI may stand rather than evade.
But if the LI is in the open with its front edge on the woods edge, then you have, well, an edge problem!-) I would look at it like the shooting arc issue. The woods is an area, and the LI is not "in" the area, it is adjacent. Thus it must evade to avoid auto-rout.

[Dickstick]

If you made your woods irregular in shape as per page 70 this problem goes away.

Considering terrain as having straight edges causes this brain ache.
There is no mid position between in the terrain or in two types of terrain.

This is a debate for those who like to be on the fence.

Commitment is needed here.

Stay in the terrain or get out of it.

Sorry if this rant upsets anyone but we can be our own worst enemy.
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Player 747 don't call me Jumbo

[Mike Bennett]

[Dickstick]

Still some situations are self inflicted.

It's the notion that one can be in and out at the same time.

The fence sitter causes their own problems.

They need to own it and not blame the rules erules.
_________________
Player 747 don't call me Jumbo

[Hazelbark]

[lionelrus]