Art De La Guerre

[SteveR]

A unit of Cavalry wishes to charge an enemy Medium Sword

They are directly lined up opposite each other and 3 UD apart

It is open terrain.

There is a unit of LI friendly to the MSW which has its rear corner in contact with the front corner of the MSW, aligned and facing in the same direction

M
..L

C

During the charge the Cavalry will enter the zoc of the Medium Sword before making corner to corner contact with the LI.

Per page 41, sliding along the enemy, the diagram with A3, my conclusion is that the Cavalry may do this, the LI remains in place and acts as simple support for the MSW.

And that the same thing would be true if the LI were Heavy Sword instead.

Is this correct?

[Ramses II]

No Steve, you may only slide along the flank of a unit that is already in melee. So:-

• In the first example, if the MC declare a charge on the LI, moving straight ahead in order to hit the MSW, it will contact the LI which must must evade so will not be in simple support
  
• In the second example, the MC would contact the HI and would be forced to conform on the HI.
  
  However, if the MC slid slightly left before advancing, it can avoid contacting the HI first, but on conforming with the MSW, it would move into contact with the HI (which would then be in simple support).
  
  Note in doing this the MC would not lose a cohesion point (see P61 multiple attacks, special cases)

[Neep]

Gavin, I think you overlooked the stipulation that the Cv enters the MI's ZoC before making contact with the LI. That makes the MI the MTE and the Cv can slide down any edge of the LI to get there.
The example doesn't illuminate the motivation, though. The Cv could slide a bit to the left before charging and never contact the LI till conformation, or a bit the right and force the LI to evade before hitting the MI.

[SteveR]

Hi Gavin,

Sorry, but I am certain you are not correct when you say a unit may only slide along a unit already in melee. Take a look at page 41. There are three cases when you may do this

Case 1 - the enemy is already in melee (as you state)
Case 2 - the unit is in contact with the enemy at the start of the move (and some stuff)
Case 3 - you are charging your most threatening enemy. This is the situation that is in question here.

the diagram on that page is explicit as well, which is why I stated it is a bit like unit A3 in that diagram, with the stipulation that the enemy is advanced enough to be the MTE

My asci diagram is not the best - the Medium Sword and the LI are facing down, the Cavalry is facing up. So there is no moving into a multiple attack situation.

As to motivations, a slide was not possible in the game because the Cavalry had friends in melee immediately to the side which would have not allowed it slide to charge the LI's front edge. And sliding to avoid the LI does nothing for the Cav as it seems pretty clear that then conforming into edge contact with LI who are then in simple support is clearly allowed.

My first thought was the same as yours - that the LI would evade as it was being contacted by the Cav. However I now do not believe that is the case after looking at page 41. The LI is not being charged or having a charge declared on it.

That is why I brought up the hypothetical with the unit being HI instead of LI. It seems clear it just stays in simple support because the Msw is the MTE

Once I had the HI case resolved in my mind it seemed to me that LI would be the same situation.

But LI are sometimes special.

[Ramses II]

Apologies steve, you are correct on point #3. 


Assuming the MC started in the ZoC of the MSW, I agree it may not do anything other than advance. 


I rechecked involuntarily exiting a ZoC and this case is not covered, so the MC ignore the corner contact. 

Since the LI are not the subject of a charge, they are not auto-destroyed when contacted (p63) and are not required to evade since they are in position to support the MSW (p47). 

I guess we live and learn