Art De La Guerre

[Mark G Fry]

This came up in a game at the weekend.

Pages 71 & 72 Terrain Descriptions - Plantations, Woods and Villages - all state clearly that:
'A unit, except LI, shooting from a village/wood/plantation does so with a penalty of -1.'

However ... Page 70 Cover from Shooting also states that:
'A target unit benefits from cover if the line of sight of the shooter passes through the terrain'.
It also states that:
'A unit located just on the edge of a terrain piece is considered to be inside the terrain'.

This appears to mean that non LI shooters inside terrain in-effect will be penalized twice (-2). Once for shooting from within the terrain and once again because they will also be shooting through that terrain.
Similarly LI shooters will also get a -1 penalty as they will also be shooting through that terrain, if shooting from within it.

Is this double penalty deliberate?

NB: I can see that in a scenario where you have a shooter which is outside a terrain piece that gives cover but which is able to shoot through that terrain piece to hit an enemy unit that is also outside the terrain but wholly or partially obscured from the shooter by that terrain, you'd want to add a 'shooting through' penalty.
But for a unit that is in terrain and already penalized for shooting out 'from it' to also be shooting 'through it' seems a bit heavy handed.

Of course it also applies for shooting inside a terrain piece that gives cover - so a none LI shooter shooting at an enemy unit that is also inside the cover gets a -2 penalty (-1 for shooting within the cover plus another -1 for shooting through the cover) and of course the target unit benefits from an additional +1 protection from the cover provided by the terrain piece (Page 58 - table at top of page) - or does it?

I can also see a need to differentiate between a Disorder from being in bad going (such as on a Steep Hill) and the effect of trees/vineyards/building physically getting in the way of the missiles - but if applied to its full extent a unit of Bowmen/Crossbowmen/Handgunners is in effect shooting at -3 at a target that is also within Cover.

I'd be interested in thoughts and clarifications please?
Many thanks

Mark

[Brave Coeur]

[Mark G Fry]

Indeed, Yes, thank you Jean-Michel - but the outcome is the same, a double penalty.

I have to say that this is not the way that it has generally been played in the UK and in my recent games in Spain & Portugal likewise. Where the shooting through cover bonus has generally not been applied.
Which was why I wanted to raise it and have it confirmed or debated on the Forum.

So the shooter gets a -1 for shooting from within cover (unless the shooter is LI) and the target always gets a +1 protection as any shooter (even LI) must (as the rules are written) be shooting through the cover, if it is situated in it.

Hey ho! It seems like a very harsh rule and makes even LI shooting from cover far less effective.

Cheers
Mark

[Mark G Fry]

So ... just to be 100% clear here:

Scenario A:
A LI bow in a plantation - shooting at a unit outside the plantation: the target unit gets an additional +1 protection as the shooter is shooting through the plantation.

Scenario B*:
A unit of Bowmen in a plantation - shooting at a unit outside the plantation: the Bowmen gets a -1 (Disorder) for shooting through the terrain, plus the target unit gets an additional +1 protection as the shooter is shooting through the plantation.

Scenario C:
A unit of Bowmen in a plantation on a steep hill - shooting at a unit outside the plantation/hill: the Bowmen gets a -1 (Disorder) for shooting 'through' the terrain plus another disorder as the unit is MF in Difficult terrain (the steep hill) and the target unit gets an additional +1 protection as the shooter is shooting through the plantation.

*In Scenario B: if the terrain is a Wood or Village (e.g. Difficult terrain) then the outcome is the same as Scenario C.

Sorry to labour the point here - but it looks to me that non-LI shooters in Difficult terrain that provides cover are, in effect, at a -3 when shooting (before adding the target units armour/protection).

Thanks
Mark