Art De La Guerre

[KevinD]

When a mounted unit is ZOCed by a slower moving unit to its rear, what are its options? (P 37.)

1. Can it choose to evade?

2. If it chooses to move straight ahead, can it:
3. Move less than its full move?
4. Slide (even to avoid obstacles)?
5. Do this as a charge?

6. Can it do this so long as any part of its rear is ZOCed even if a side is ZOCed?

7. What if one unit ZOCs its rear but another ZOCs some other part of the unit, can it still move straight ahead because there is a slower unit ZOCing its rear?

8. What if one slower unit ZOCs its rear but another faster one also ZOCs it?

[Hazelbark]

p 37 "special cases"

1 no
3 no
4 no
5 no. This is a move not a charge and a charge must charge the most threatening enemy.
6 I would say yes, but I am trying to figure out precisely what you are saying. A ZOC does not move through an enemy unit remember. So a ZOC that strike both side and rear this would be allowed but a ZOC that only strikes side no.
7 Which is the most threatening unit? A rule of thumb, you are never really zoc'd by two units. One always has precedence.
8 see answer to 7.

[Ramses II]

As Hazelbark says, this is covered in "Exiting a ZoC" (P37).
Normally units that may evade do so, while those that may not evade 'step back' while facing the enemy. However in the special case where the most threatening enemy is ZoCing the rear of a faster mounted unit which may not normally evade, it just moves away.

So, IMO the answers are

1. YES Bow armed cavalry may evade, while Impact and Impetuous cavalry may also move away.
   
2. 
   
3. No, in all cases the unit moves the full distance
   
4. No, only mounted making an evade may slide and / or wheel to avoid obstacles
   
5. No, in the same way that evaders may not charge a new enemy, units exiting the ZoC of one enemy may not charge another enemy.
   
6. This depends on where the front edge of the most threatening enemy is located (see Types of Contact diag P41). It will either be on a flank or rear, which in turn determines what the unit may do
   
7. Only the nearest enemy is "the Most Threatening" by definition (P35), irrespective of it's location or mobility
   
8. See answer #7 above

[KevinD]

So Hazelbark and Ramses disagree about whether mounted who can evade may choose to either move away or evade (Ramses) or must move away only (Hazelbark).

Could I ask you to clarify which is allowed with EK?

Another question if a unit moving away meets (a) an obstacle (friends it can’t interpenetrate, enemy, or impassable terrain) or(b) table edge what happens?

(a) Is it not allowed to move away? Or is it allowed to just stop at the obstacle?

(b) Does it exit the table or is it not allowed to move away or does it stop at the table edge.

[KevinD]

HCaille wrote (regarding the Special Move for mounted to exit the ZOC of slower troops to their rear):

“If the unit can Evade, it does an evade move
The units that cannot evade apply the special rule for exiting the ZoC“

http://www.artdelaguerre.fr/adlg/v3/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10007

[MarkK]

I have a question about evading that I can't get the logical part of my brain around. So after reorientation your cav. suddenly realise there is an enemy unit partially in front exerting a ZOC over the unit trying to evade. So the logical part of my brain is saying 'why would you just sit there watching an enemy unit just amble around you rear, not see the danger and not do anything about it?' Ergo, why would it stop it evading at all as logic would dictate it would scoot long before it exit route was cut off?

So what's the reasoning? Is it a case of it just is what it is and deal with it?

[Ramses II]

Hi Mark, when the target unit is being charged, there are two situations covering the evading process here:-

1. Where the evadingunit  is further than 1UD from the enemy with a ZoC, it may attempt to dodge that ZoC. (Basically it realizes the potential problem, and has the time to reorder its formation).
   
2. The evading unit is now within the  ZoC of the enemy unit, which means it does not have enough time to complete its formation change, so is caught by the charging enemy.

[MarkK]

[Mike Bennett]

[MarkK]

[Neep]

A couple observations:

I think "side is ZoCed" is too imprecise to be useful. I think it's better to look if the enemy can legally strike the rear edge.

Mark, it is true that you can move A to put an evader in ZoC and then charge with B, but A and B need to be in more or less opposite sides for this to work, so as Mike said, why is the evader so exposed?

[MarkK]

He isn't. This is a situation were say you have a LH 'facing' an opponent' it's a well use ADLG tactic to then square off at the front and send another around the rear to stop the evade. My question is I can see why the rule is there because, as you say, a troop type that is typically used to operating in the danger zone and even behind the enemy line may get itself into a predicament, but is this rule being exploited?

'I think "side is ZoCed" is too imprecise to be useful. I think it's better to look if the enemy can legally strike the rear edge.' - yes I can see that 'if they are already to you rear' but starting in-front of you and just running around the side why would they let that happen and not react?

[Ramses II]

Mark, if I have understood you correctly, I think the rules already do what you want. 

P47, blocked evade move says

[Zoltan]

Remember the ADLG mantra - always respect the ZoC.

1. The would-be evader first turns away from the charger.
2. It then applies the “blocked evade” tests.
3. If it is now within the ZoC of another enemy unit, the evade is cancelled and the non-evader is turned back to its original position.

The rationale is entirely consistent within the pp. 35-36 Movements Allowed Within A ZoC rules.

Once the would-be evader turns away from the charging enemy unit, the ZoCing enemy unit becomes the would-be evader’s MTE (per pp. 35-36). When in a ZoC, evading towards a ZoCer is not a permitted action. 

As Mike says, your unit has simply been outmanoeuvred. You are surrounded; come out with your hands up. 

[MarkK]

I wouldn't call having opposing units in front of your front edge being outmaneuver