Art De La Guerre

vexillia · Centurion Inscrit le: 21 Nov 2017 Messages: 408 Localisation: Nantwich, UK

Nice simple one this morning. I think I know the answer, but wanted to check.

Background:

Armour ability does not apply if enemy has Furious charge (p17)
Furious charge of mounted does not apply against (not cancelled by ) Missile support (p20)

Situation:

Armour foot receive a charge from impetuous cavalry to their front.

Question:

Do the foot apply the bonus for armour if they lose the first round of the resultant melee?

Yes or no would be good. Wink

_________________
Martin Stephenson

Subscribe via email or rss.

MarkK · Archer Inscrit le: 07 Nov 2024 Messages: 58

I've not managed to get my head around furious charge or why impact cancels it given that the initial charge was considered the most dangerous by the Romans.

Neep · Prétorien Inscrit le: 09 Jan 2023 Messages: 296

No, unless the Cv is in rough or difficult terrain, or the foot is defending an edge of rough or difficult terrain, Stakes, fortifications, or obstacles. Or the foot has Missile Support.

KevinD · Post� le: Dim F�v 23, 2025 5:16 pm Sujet du message:

No, the armor bonus does not apply.

Cancelled abilities can still cancel opponents’ other abilities. This is the difference between canceled abilities and “does not apply”.

lionelrus · Post� le: Dim F�v 23, 2025 8:13 pm Sujet du message:

vexillia · Post� le: Dim F�v 23, 2025 10:11 pm Sujet du message:

See comment below.
_________________
Martin Stephenson

Subscribe via email or rss.

MarkK · Archer Inscrit le: 07 Nov 2024 Messages: 58

Apologise, if I could just jump in - I struggle a little crossing over information, so if you have Impact HC they also get the Furious Charge against foot. So is this cumulative?

KevinD · Post� le: Dim Mar 02, 2025 1:53 pm Sujet du message:

Cumulative with what?

HC Impact against foot get +1 (Impact) and do an extra cohesion hit if they win (Furious Charge) and remove any enemy armor factor (also due to Furious Charge).

If the Impact is cancelled by Spears or Pikes, Impact/Impetuous Cav still get Furious Charge (extra CP if they win vs foot in the open and cancel enemy armor win or lose).

This +1 for Impact is not cumulative with the +1 for non-Impact Cav vs LMI or MI Sw.

If Impact Cav charge enemy foot with missile support, the Cv Impact do not inflict an extra CP if they win (as Furious Charge is cancelled by missile support), but win or lose they negate enemy army due to their Furious Charge (even if the Furious Charge is cancelled by missile support).

Neep · Prétorien Inscrit le: 09 Jan 2023 Messages: 296

I disagree.

The rules do not say what it means to "have" Furious Charge (page 17). Common usage says if your home insurance policy is cancelled, you don't have home insurance.

I don't see much difference between this situation, and Impact Cv attacking Javelinmen in the rough. Impact cancels Javelin, but penalizing terrain cancels Impact. The Errata says the Javelin +1 counts. If Support+Armor vs Furious Charge is a special case, it needs to be highlighted as such.

Mark G Fry · Post� le: Lun Mar 03, 2025 10:06 am Sujet du message:

vexillia · Post� le: Lun Mar 03, 2025 11:46 am Sujet du message:

Mark G Fry · Post� le: Lun Mar 03, 2025 2:09 pm Sujet du message:

vexillia · Post� le: Lun Mar 03, 2025 4:26 pm Sujet du message:

vexillia · Post� le: Lun Mar 03, 2025 4:34 pm Sujet du message:

vexillia · Post� le: Lun Mar 03, 2025 5:02 pm Sujet du message:

It has been suggested to me, off list, that the use of "does not apply" and "cancelled" is a translation error. So, can someone with access both the French & English versions check the translation of:

"does not apply" at top of second column p18, second list of bullet points under Furious charge.
"cancelled" in the last bullet point of the Impact section on the same page.

How do they compare? Should they mean the same?
_________________
Martin Stephenson

Subscribe via email or rss.