Art De La Guerre

[AlanCutner]

Follow up query from tournament game at weekend.


Friendly unit C is between two enemy units A and B, and advanced about 1/2 UD past their front edges (not shown are current frontal melee opponents of A and B). On its next turn unit C would be able to turn on the flank of either A or B. However enemy LI D is moved to the position shown.

Unit C cannot wheel to charge as insufficient room. If it turn 90 degrees it doesn't have room to conform to either enemy flank edge due to the presence of LI D.

Do the LI move away because contacted by an enemy unit doing a conform?

If not are the only options
1. Charge the LI and have to pursue at least 1UD (2UD if unit C was mounted), or
2. Turn 90 degrees and do a partial conform that doesn't count as a flank charge, or
3. Stay in place

[Andy Fyfe]

[Mike Bennett]

[Andy Fyfe]

[AlanCutner]

One question is how this compares to the discussion on Evade https://www.artdelaguerre.fr/adlg/v3/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10850 where it was agreed a blocking LI is forced to move away when touched by an evading unit. Why isn't the blocking LI D forced to move away by a conforming unit?

[Ramses II]

I tend to agree Mike.  This is effectively the same as if unit B were not there (eg an attack on the end of a line), I think that the LI would be forced to evade being contacted by a heavier enemy (conforming LI p54)
 
Note, if the LI were a heavier unit, then it would prevent C fully conforming on the flank of A as required on p52. 

[Three]

I was asked to rule on this at the competition.
I initially said that the LI has to evade.
When (quite rightly) asked to point out where that was written, I couldn't.
I completely agree that it looks and feels wrong, makes LI potentially far too powerful, but as written there is nothing i could find to stop the LI going into the space and nothing that unit C can do conform into the flank of either unit.

Pg 54 was looked at, but it's about LI conforming into heavies and doesn't really fix the issue in question.

[madaxeman]

- The rule on p52 is absolutely clear that you can't move enemy troops in order to conform fully to an enemy.

- The Incomplete Conformation rule on p53 does still enable the moving unit to fight on the flank even without (illegally) moving the LF away.

- The Melee Support rule on p60 does explicitly cover the situation in which "incomplete" Melee Support conformation counts as Simple Support, so the attacker is still gaining something from making an incomplete conformation.

- If the blocking unit were anything other than LF, no-one would bat an eyelid to say it can't be moved.

There would have been many opportunities for El Kreator to include a "special case" in any of these rules if he had intended that enemy LI should be able to be bumped out of postion during conformation, but as none of them are there I'm not seeing any hint here that this is anything other than a scenario which is fully compliant with the rules both as written, and as intended.


Unless anyone is proposing that this situation is so egrarious that it needs an immediate change in the rules, maybe the lesson here is (as Andy says) not to dick about with sneaking just a bit past the flank of an enemy - get all the way past (and in so doing accept the greater risk of being contacted or ZoCced by someone new) and this issue goes away anyway?
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www.madaxeman.com

[Neep]

As I recall, in other contexts front edge contact by heavy troops is deemed required to destroy or force evasion of LI, and not simply brushing by.

The alternatives - simple support to both flanks, or chasing off of the LI then turning for a flank/rear attack are not necessarily sub-optimal.

[Ramses II]

Guys, I think the position of the LI is key. 
P47 says the LI must evade when contacted by a heavier enemy, unless the LI would be in a position to provide support.

Here the LI is at an angle so not in a position to support, so I suggest it must evade. 

[AlanCutner]

[KevinD]

[madaxeman]

[KevinD]

[AlanCutner]