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Andy Fyfe
Vétéran
Inscrit le: 14 Fév 2024
Messages: 152
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 Posté le: Lun Jan 19, 2026 11:00 pm Sujet du message: Interpenetration |
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Hi Guys,
Page 39 Interpenetration Special cases:
Interpenetration is not allowed if the friendly unit to be passed through is in melee or is providing support to a friendly unit in melee.
When is does a unit count as providing support? Is it a soon as a unit next to it has been charged?
For example a light infantry in front of an elephant with the elephant having a medium swordsman to each flank - a Death Star.
An enemy unit charges one of the medium swordsmen - is the elephant immediately classed as being in support meaning that the light infantry cannot interpenetrate through it?
Andy |
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KevinD
Tribun
Inscrit le: 23 Aoû 2021
Messages: 728
Localisation: Texas
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| Posté le: Lun Jan 19, 2026 11:39 pm Sujet du message: |
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| You are correct; if they are in position to provide support they count as providing support for the interpenetration rules. |
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Andy Fyfe
Vétéran
Inscrit le: 14 Fév 2024
Messages: 152
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| Posté le: Mar Jan 20, 2026 7:49 am Sujet du message: |
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| KevinD a écrit: | | You are correct; if they are in position to provide support they count as providing support for the interpenetration rules. |
Thank you Kevin. |
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madaxeman
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014
Messages: 1725
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
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| Posté le: Mar Jan 20, 2026 10:11 am Sujet du message: |
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| KevinD a écrit: | | You are correct; if they are in position to provide support they count as providing support for the interpenetration rules. |
…. And they are “in a support position†when the charger and target are actually in contact - not when the charge is declared (which may be the question Andy is asking..?)Â
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Andy Fyfe
Vétéran
Inscrit le: 14 Fév 2024
Messages: 152
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| Posté le: Mar Jan 20, 2026 10:39 am Sujet du message: |
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| madaxeman a écrit: | | KevinD a écrit: | | You are correct; if they are in position to provide support they count as providing support for the interpenetration rules. |
…. And they are “in a support position†when the charger and target are actually in contact - not when the charge is declared (which may be the question Andy is asking..?) |
Thank you Tim - it was not my question but is a good clarification nonetheless!
The lack of interpenetration through supporting units possibly allows a tactic to destroy the LI placed in front of an elephant in a Death Star.
XXYYZZ
__LI__
AAEEBB
XX slides a little to its right and charges AA
ZZ slides a little to its left and charges BB
YY charges the LI
LI is destroyed in melee phase and YY pursues into the elephant and avoids the elephant impact.
Andy |
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madaxeman
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014
Messages: 1725
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
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| Posté le: Mar Jan 20, 2026 11:04 am Sujet du message: |
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| Andy Fyfe a écrit: | | madaxeman a écrit: | | KevinD a écrit: | | You are correct; if they are in position to provide support they count as providing support for the interpenetration rules. |
…. And they are “in a support position†when the charger and target are actually in contact - not when the charge is declared (which may be the question Andy is asking..?) |
Thank you Tim - it was not my question but is a good clarification nonetheless!
The lack of interpenetration through supporting units possibly allows a tactic to destroy the LI placed in front of an elephant in a Death Star.
XXYYZZ
__LI__
AAEEBB
XX slides a little to its right and charges AA
ZZ slides a little to its left and charges BB
YY charges the LI
LI is destroyed in melee phase and YY pursues into the elephant and avoids the elephant impact.
Andy |
If any player chooses to spend 3 pips in order to charge two of his units into combat positions where they will both be overlapped in the first round of combat (potentially against enemy Impact foot) in order to secure a 'free' kill on an enemy LF, I guess that is a choice they are indeed free to make ..
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SteveR
Centurion
Inscrit le: 21 Mar 2018
Messages: 405
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| Posté le: Mar Jan 20, 2026 7:02 pm Sujet du message: |
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Hi Andy,
I saw where you were going with this question and it brought up something I had not considered. An interesting tactic.
Note two things -
1. If you start within 1 UD you can (obviously) not worry about the CP cost Tim mentions
2. You need not slide unless one of the side units are in front of the LI. As you advance you will enter the ZOC of AA/BB and so can slide along the side of the LI per page 41 to charge the most threatening enemy |
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madaxeman
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014
Messages: 1725
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
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| Posté le: Mar Jan 20, 2026 7:26 pm Sujet du message: |
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| SteveR a écrit: | Hi Andy,
I saw where you were going with this question and it brought up something I had not considered. An interesting tactic.
Note two things -
1. If you start within 1 UD you can (obviously) not worry about the CP cost Tim mentions
2. You need not slide unless one of the side units are in front of the LI. As you advance you will enter the ZOC of AA/BB and so can slide along the side of the LI per page 41 to charge the most threatening enemy |
This is a great theory, that does of course require both battle lines to either start off absolutely perfectly aligned, or for the chargers to have no friendly units on either side of their initial line (as extra units might then block any slides required to perfectly line up before charging).. which in turn suggests that some of the units charging into combat may well be fighting with 2 overlaps against them, one of which is an elephant...
Good luck if you can find an opportunity to pull it off of course, but its also not exactly drifting into the game-changing, easy to execute super-powermove category either.... 
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SteveR
Centurion
Inscrit le: 21 Mar 2018
Messages: 405
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| Posté le: Mar Jan 20, 2026 11:28 pm Sujet du message: |
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The battle line alignment can be, and often commonly is, accomplished in an earlier turn.
The more serious objection is your earlier point about it requiring voluntarily moving into a position where the enemy has a double overlap for one turn. Still this can be mitigated if the attacker is the one who has additional overlaps and if you have to let someone have a double overlap at least an elephant is a nice expensive unit doing it.
I agree this does not represent anything game breaking or overwhelmingly important but think Andy has come up with something useful. |
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KevinD
Tribun
Inscrit le: 23 Aoû 2021
Messages: 728
Localisation: Texas
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| Posté le: Mer Jan 21, 2026 3:40 am Sujet du message: |
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| There are other unpleasant ways this could be used too - for example preventing LC from fleeing back through Cv or Kn, then kill the LC and inflict a hit on the Cv or Kn behind…. |
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MarkK
Auxiliaire
Inscrit le: 07 Nov 2024
Messages: 72
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| Posté le: Mer Jan 21, 2026 1:37 pm Sujet du message: |
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| Andy Fyfe a écrit: | | madaxeman a écrit: | | KevinD a écrit: | | You are correct; if they are in position to provide support they count as providing support for the interpenetration rules. |
…. And they are “in a support position†when the charger and target are actually in contact - not when the charge is declared (which may be the question Andy is asking..?) |
Thank you Tim - it was not my question but is a good clarification nonetheless!
The lack of interpenetration through supporting units possibly allows a tactic to destroy the LI placed in front of an elephant in a Death Star.
XXYYZZ
__LI__
AAEEBB
XX slides a little to its right and charges AA
ZZ slides a little to its left and charges BB
YY charges the LI
LI is destroyed in melee phase and YY pursues into the elephant and avoids the elephant impact.
Andy |
Dumb question, but why isn't it that the EL's are providing melee support and not the LI? After all they are flank to flank of units XX and YY and surely blocking the corner to corner of the EL? |
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Andy Fyfe
Vétéran
Inscrit le: 14 Fév 2024
Messages: 152
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| Posté le: Mer Jan 21, 2026 5:11 pm Sujet du message: |
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| MarkK a écrit: | | Andy Fyfe a écrit: | | madaxeman a écrit: | | KevinD a écrit: | | You are correct; if they are in position to provide support they count as providing support for the interpenetration rules. |
…. And they are “in a support position†when the charger and target are actually in contact - not when the charge is declared (which may be the question Andy is asking..?) |
Thank you Tim - it was not my question but is a good clarification nonetheless!
The lack of interpenetration through supporting units possibly allows a tactic to destroy the LI placed in front of an elephant in a Death Star.
XXYYZZ
__LI__
AAEEBB
XX slides a little to its right and charges AA
ZZ slides a little to its left and charges BB
YY charges the LI
LI is destroyed in melee phase and YY pursues into the elephant and avoids the elephant impact.
Andy |
Dumb question, but why isn't it that the EL's are providing melee support and not the LI? After all they are flank to flank of units XX and YY and surely blocking the corner to corner of the EL? |
No dumb questions.
The LI and elephant are both in simple support positions.
Only one can be in support - no real difference as to which one to pick.
Andy |
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