Art De La Guerre

[A4]

This is hard to describe, but imagine there is a wood on the edge of the table within my opponent's ambush zone.

Can he ever:

1. Place an ambushing unit behind the wood rather than actually in the wood?

2. Place the ambush marker itself behind the wood rather than in the wood?

For what it is worth I think that he can because the left hand column of p 70 of the English translation says, "Ambush markers must be placed in terrain that allows troops to make an ambush or behind an obstacle that blocks line-of-sight of the enemy, such as a wood, a plantation, a village or a hill." But players who know the rules well think differently so I would like to check.

3. Assuming that it is possible to ambush from behind terrain as well as from within terrain how do you decide what is "behind" the terrain? Ie what is the shadow area behind the forest from which ambushes can be made?

Can ambushers / an ambush marker only be placed in:

A. A place hidden from any point on my half of the table?

or

B. A place hidden from any point in my ambush zone (which could extend up to half-way in the flank sectors if I was defending).

or

C. A position hidden from any point in my normal deployment zone (ie 7 UDs from the edge at the normal scale).

or

D. A position hidden from the actual troops I have put on the table.

With thanks,

Alan

[hcaille]

You can place the ambush marker behind an obstacle (as indicated page 70).

The ambush marker must not be in line of sight of any enemy unit. If an enemy unit move and have a line of sight on your ambushing units, then you must place it on the table.

Line of sight is just a strait line from one unit to the ambush marker that not pass through a terrain element which blocks line of sight.

[A4]

One further question. My opponent has put an ambush marker behind a wood on the left of the table. I deploy troops from a corps on the right edge of the table so that they can see marker. Must my opponent put the figures on the table immediately, or does he wait for deployment to finish?

With best wishes and thanks for producing a brilliant set of rules,

Alan

[Ramses II]

Thank you for the reply, though the answer is not entirely clear because Ambush markers are placed before any units are on the table.

Please could someone define further what is meant by "behind" an object (relative to the enemy deployment zone),

Also could you confirm the following understanding of the process:
1) each person places their ambush markers
2) an ambush marker is revealed when an enemy unit is moved or placed in Line of Sight of the ambush marker

This would mean that ambush markers could be revealed during deployment, or conceivably by units placed when an enemy ambush marker is revealed.

[hcaille]

[hcaille]

[Ramses II]

Thanks for the replies above. Could you help clarify two related points:

1. When placing Ambush markers outside LoS of the opponents "deployment zone", is this zone
   • 5U from the opponents baseline (normal troops)
     
   • 7U from the opponents baseline (light troops)
     
   • Mid-way (the maximum for defensive Ambush markers)
   
   
2. What are the restrictions (if any) on placing units related to a revealed Ambush marker that was behind an obstacle (as per the above definition) rather than actually in the relevant terrain?
   
   
3. Can Ambush markers be grouped together such that the hidden units related to each would have to be superimposed on each other to comply with the placement rules?
   
   The rules as written suggest that this is indeed valid, providing each Ambush marker is revealed separately. However, if they are revealed together, the units that cannot be placed would be lost.

[hcaille]

[Wagmestre]

[Wagmestre]

De plus, faut-il comprendre de ta réponse que les troupes embusquées sont soumises aux règles de déploiement des 5 et 7 UD ?
Ce n'est pas ce que nous avons joué jusqu'à présent.

[Wagmestre]

Sorry, it's the english part of the forum.
I just say I think Ramses told in #1 about the viewer's or opponent's zone of deployment, not of these of the player who is ambushing units.
(and I appologize for assassinate Shakespeare's language...)

Furthermore, it seems to me type of troops doens't mine for embush location (lights up to 7 and others up to 5 from the baseline).

[Ramses II]

Thank you Wagmestre, you have the correct sense of my first question, but I will try to rephrase them all for clarity

1. When placing an ambush marker behind an object I understand it must not be placed in LoS of the opponent's deployment Zone; I am seeking a definition of "the opponent's deployment zone", is it 5UD or 7UD (or something different)?
   
   
2. What restrictions exist (if any) when placing the units of a revealed ambush that is behind (in the shadow of) an object; is it sufficient to place them in the shadow of the object as defined above, or must they also be out of LoS of the enemy that has revealed the ambush?
   
   Note Wagmestre, I assume that 'Heavy' units may be placed outside the 5UD zone if they are 'in the shadow' of an object that will conceal them from the opponent's Deployment zone.
   
   
3. What are the restrictions about grouping Ambush markers close together? Consider a triangular Ambush zone / shadow that could contain 6x units, with an ambush marker on each corner. If each marker is revealed separately, the other units for a given marker can be placed in the 3x empty spaces, and then moved out to make way for the units of the next Ambush marker.
   This is valid according to the rules, though definitely 'questionable'.
   
   Perhaps you could stipulate when placing Ambush markers that there must be sufficient space to place all the associated units simultaneously.
   
   Note, it is still apparently valid to move other units through these locations without penalty
   

[Hazelbark]

[quote="Ramses II"]

[footslogger]

I'm guessing that a unit in a gully can not see out of the gully, and that other units cannot see it unless they are on the edge of the gully, but I can't find anything about that in the rules. How are gullies treated?

[Ramses II]