Art De La Guerre

[Joao Especial]

Is it just me to think that the modelling of combat betwen legionaries and Phalanx is somewhat wrong?

On contact they are even: Pike +2; Legio +1(h Sword) +1 Impact = 2
But after impact the pike keep figthing at 2+ while the Legio are at +1 only.

And now is the moment someone rebembers that legionaries are almost allways armoured. Yes they are, but that prevent them to LOSE more often, not to even the combat.

What i expected to see was a even combat decided by "randon" factos (dice...) or by someone arriving on a flank. But what hapens after the first contact is that the phalanx has advantage on each ad every round (Excepr if they lost the 1st combat...)

Is there something i miss?

[madaxeman]

[Hazelbark]

I find the dynamic very balanced.

[babyshark]

If the pikes win or draw the impact, then they should expect to grind the legions down, being at a +1 the rest of the way. If the legions win impact, then they will probably destroy the pikes eventually because the factors are even and the legions will have more cohesion levels left.

Also, the legions are probably armored and are more likely to be elite as well. You should also consider the greater tactical flexibility of the legions.

All told, I think the interaction works pretty well.

Marc

[JohnTheBoring]

Historically legions won before they were more flexible. Phalanx turning to the side is difficult, for legions it is not. Once the supports are stripped off the phalanx is in trouble.

[Joao Especial]

Reality Check?



Teorically the Legions have advantages in manouvre, but once combat is locked its an uphill strugle for the legions. If they dont win on impact, they are fated to lose. It's just a question of when

[Snowhitsky]

[Hazelbark]

You are largely correct.
If the legion loses the first round it is in trouble. This is true in most interactions that winners win more.

Impact +2 vs +2 w/ armor. Assume no one was elite.

Pike win 28%
Legion wins 42%

Melee if NOT hurt. Then I think those odds invert.

If the opposite occurs and the legion wins the initial charge then it likely will continue to win.

I would note having a 1 in 4 chance of restoring the situation after it has gone badly is actually not that bad.

[ethan]

[fdunadan]

And you have to think of rallying.
Pk/legio will never end in one single turn. So the command is very important ; as the more CP you have and the more rally you can attempt. Romans are a little more avantaged in this.

From experience, the face to face shock will be couterbalanced by cunning maneuvrers of both side to gain a flank attack and wipe the ligne by the side, not only with frontal combat.
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Audentes fortuna iuvat.

[martymagnificent]

But are the legions really more flexible? I suppose it depends on what you mean by flexible. Maneuverable, perhaps, but able to handle a broad range of opponents definitely not.

After all the pike are pretty much invulnerable to anything on a horse whereas the legions are definitely not.

Martin

[ethan]

Legions are definitely better versus anyone who shoots and against impetuous foot. They are also much better in terrain (and in fact are surprisingly useful in terrain). They are also as noted more maneuverable.

[Hazelbark]

[AntiokosIII]

All I know is that whenever my phalanx runs into legionaries I sweat bullets and it usually ends badly. Telling me the odds were slightly in my favor only makes it hurt a bit more.
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Tabletop miniatures are the only completely honorable form of warfare ever invented.