Art De La Guerre
Bienvenue sur le forum de discussion de la règle de jeu l'Art De La Guerre
 
FAQFAQ RechercherRechercher Liste des MembresListe des Membres Groupes d'utilisateursGroupes d'utilisateurs S'enregistrerS'enregistrer
ProfilProfil Se connecter pour vérifier ses messages privésSe connecter pour vérifier ses messages privés ConnexionConnexion
Richard the Lionheart
Page 2 sur 2 Aller à la page Précédente  1, 2
Poster un nouveau sujet   Répondre au sujet
 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Army lists
Auteur Message
nikgaukroger
Frondeur


Inscrit le: 26 Déc 2014
Messages: 8
MessagePosté le: Lun Mar 27, 2017 8:57 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
AlanCutner a écrit:
I'm guessing he's not a strategist in both lists simply through human error when they were compiled.


I'd say that is indeed the most likely reason - I speak from painful experience on this Laughing
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Hazelbark
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1525
MessagePosté le: Lun Mar 27, 2017 3:12 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Black Prince a écrit:
Of course this leads to other question in ADLG how effective/competitive is the Later Crusader army? In previous rule system it always lacks what it takes to be a good army is it the same with ADLG?


It is a very solid list. As mentioned it won't enjoy invading Siam. It has some agility issues. But the mixed shooters are more dangerous to many opponents than they realize.

I ran a very similar style army (Normans in Sicily) to great effect.

It is a strong enough army that you can take it to an open event and remain competitive and dangerous to most foes.
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Black Prince
Prétorien


Inscrit le: 17 Oct 2016
Messages: 290
MessagePosté le: Lun Mar 27, 2017 11:08 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Thanks for your feedback - time to dust off my Crusaders.
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Black Prince
Prétorien


Inscrit le: 17 Oct 2016
Messages: 290
MessagePosté le: Mar Mar 28, 2017 12:19 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
What about this list?

CinC brilliant
5x Crusaders Med Kn Impetuous ord
1x turcopoles med cav bow ord

Sub gen ord
5x 1/2 spearmen 1/2 xbow ord
2x LF box ord

Sub gen
4x Med Kn impact elite
1x LF bow ord
1x Crusaders Med Kn Impetuous ord
1x turcopoles med cav bow ord
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Snowhitsky
Prétorien


Inscrit le: 15 Juin 2015
Messages: 224
Localisation: Lancaster, UK
MessagePosté le: Mar Mar 28, 2017 7:52 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
You're missing the compulsory spearmen. The mixed spear/crossbowmen are upgraded crossbowmen, you can't use the spearmen for that.

The problem with your list is that you lack flexibility: your commands either shoot or charge. That leaves you vulnerable to your opponent concentrating two commands against your impetuous knights while he covers the rest of your army with light troops. It will also be easier for him to get the right match-ups. Finally, you will spend a lot of pips and high value troops to stop a LH from slipping around to your camp.

My recommendation would be two wings each with mixed/spearmen, a MC turcopole, two elite impact knights and a centre with the spearmen and impetuous knights and a fortified camp. Can't remember how many LI you can have but put a minimum of one in each command. Each wing can deal with enemy mounted on its own and support the centre. If your opponent concentrates against one flank, the flank command can hang on long enough for the centre to come to its aid while the other flank command either sweeps forward or moves behind the centre to the other flank.

One alternative is to have two mixed commands as described above and a Syrian ally. The ally has just enough troops of the right type to deal with the small delaying commands some players favour on a refused flank and large enough to cause trouble.

Hope that helps.
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Hazelbark
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1525
MessagePosté le: Mar Mar 28, 2017 3:27 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
My Normans and Sicily list was sort of

#1
4 impetuous Elite Knights
2 LC
1 Bow

#2
4 impact knights
2 Mixed HI SP/XB
1 LI

#3
2 Mixed HI SP/XB
2 HI
1 LI

Like your list 8 Medium Knights is a lot of power and an enemy needs to concentrate a lot of their army to fight that.

The idea similar to the snowhitsky is you can have all the knights in the center with wings of mixed shooters to hold back the people attacking your flanks.

I have evolved further. The idea you have of the Tucopole in each command could be swapped for an impact knight in the impetuous command. Same idea it gives you something to maneuver to hold a flank.

I'd look to get 2 LC because if you can attack it makes this army nicer.

I also have taken to having an included general in my purish-knight command. Obviously elite. The idea is they are going in, do it full on. This usually makes him ordinary.

You want all the LI you can get. Have dismounts for your LC if the enemy lets you with elephants. The LI can be a shield versus shooting and if the aforementioned elephants show up they can meet those while your knights try to blast through the elephant supports.

Be careful to never deploy in more than two groups per command if attacking and if defending the 3rd group is just to put out a skirmisher to slow the enemy advance.

If defending always deploy the impetuous knights slightly back from the 5 UD line as enemy LC can try to trigger them on your first move. (Enemy deploys 7 moves 5. They now sit at your 8 UD. Knights 5 UD in, plus 3 UD charge = 3 CP to control).

Currently I rather invest in mixed shooters than MC Turcopole. MC can't hold much off without dying. So you assume they die in 1-2 melees. If they evade they aren't guarding a flank. If you invade they can go out and slow up an enemy Corps, but the CP drain or unit loss need to be forseen.
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Black Prince
Prétorien


Inscrit le: 17 Oct 2016
Messages: 290
MessagePosté le: Mar Mar 28, 2017 11:01 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Thanks for the input draft 2;

CinC brilliant
4x Kn impact elite
2x LF bow
1x Spearman armour ord

Sub ord
3x 1/2 spear 1/2 xbow ord
2x spearmen armour ord
1x LF bow
1x LC impact

Sub ord
2x Crusaders Kn impetuous ord
2x 1/2 spear 1/2 xbow ord
1x spearman armour ord
1x LF bow
1x LC impact

Fortified camp.
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Hazelbark
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1525
MessagePosté le: Mer Mar 29, 2017 3:17 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
So the single spear with the CIC is a waste.
In my view a brilliant is a wast for that as well.

I don't care for two impetuous and a 0 or +1 commander as they are very easily going to attack if you get near a foe.

Can you have 2 LC impact or just 1 ?

I think you have too much armored spear and not enough knights.
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Black Prince
Prétorien


Inscrit le: 17 Oct 2016
Messages: 290
MessagePosté le: Mer Mar 29, 2017 11:50 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
The work continues, what about if I swap the Bedouins with the Crusader Kn in corps 1 and 3?

#1 Commander in Chief Ordinary
Quantity Troop description Troop type
4 Hospitallers and Templars Medium Knight impact Elite
2 Maronites and Syrians Light infantry bow
1 Crusaders Medium Knight impetuous

#2
2 Sergeants ½ Heavy spearmen ½ Crossbowmen
1 Light Infantry BowLight infantry bow
3 Sergeants with Spears Heavy spearmen
1 Turcopoles Light cavalry bow

#3
3 Crusaders Medium Knight impetuous
1 Bedouins Light cavalry impact
1 Sergeants ½ Heavy spearmen ½ Crossbowmen
1 Light Infantry Bow Light infantry bow
2 Hospitallar Sergeants with Spears Heavy spearmen armour
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
babyshark
Légionaire


Inscrit le: 19 Jan 2015
Messages: 134
MessagePosté le: Jeu Mar 30, 2017 1:24 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
The first thing that popped into my head when I read your revised list was that putting one impetuous KN in the CinC's corps creates an unnecessary command and control problem in that corps. Why not put all the impetuous KN together, so that the command point problem is lessened?

Marc
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Snowcat
Vétéran


Inscrit le: 07 Jan 2017
Messages: 162
MessagePosté le: Jeu Mar 30, 2017 10:06 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
babyshark a écrit:
The first thing that popped into my head when I read your revised list was that putting one impetuous KN in the CinC's corps creates an unnecessary command and control problem in that corps. Why not put all the impetuous KN together, so that the command point problem is lessened?

Marc


I think the idea is that the base of impetuous knights in Corps 1 would be replaced by the Bedouin LC in Corps 3, as Black Prince suggested.

Cheers
_________________
"When one goes, one must go with style."
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Snowhitsky
Prétorien


Inscrit le: 15 Juin 2015
Messages: 224
Localisation: Lancaster, UK
MessagePosté le: Ven Mar 31, 2017 7:33 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
This is how I'd play it in an open competition:

Corps I:

Richard the Lionheart: Brilliant general
2 elite impact KN
2 HI spearmen
3 mixed HI spearmen/crossbowmen
1 LH bow

Corps II:

Brilliant general
2 elite impact KN
2 HI spearmen
3 mixed HI spearmen/crossbowmen

Corps III:

Syrian ally: ordinary general included with first unit
1 HCV, bow, elite
2 MCV, impact, elite
1 LH, bow, elite
1 LI, bow
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Black Prince
Prétorien


Inscrit le: 17 Oct 2016
Messages: 290
MessagePosté le: Sam Avr 01, 2017 2:51 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Everyone thanks for your help.
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
  
 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Army lists
Page 2 sur 2 Aller à la page Précédente  1, 2
Poster un nouveau sujet   Répondre au sujet Toutes les heures sont au format GMT

 
Sauter vers:  
Vous ne pouvez pas poster de nouveaux sujets dans ce forum
Vous ne pouvez pas répondre aux sujets dans ce forum
Vous ne pouvez pas éditer vos messages dans ce forum
Vous ne pouvez pas supprimer vos messages dans ce forum
Vous ne pouvez pas voter dans les sondages de ce forum