Art De La Guerre

[daveallen]

Lots of questions some multiple choice, please explain your answers.

But first the diagram


[edit to make C a Cataphract and while I'm about it point out that B is nether impetuous nor impact]

So this is similar to a situation that arose at the weekend. C has just routed a Light Cav unit and pursued into the above position.

1) does B have to conform on its turn?

If B does conform what happens to A:

2) it evades

3) it is pushed out of the way by the conform and ends in flank contact with B

4) Can B disengage from its initial position?

5) If the answer to 4) is yes which direction does it go and end facing?

6) If the answer to 2) is yes that the LI evades, can B make a second move to disengage?

7) without conforming, can B simply make a move to exit C's ZoC?

I think that's it.

Dave
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Putting the ink into incompetence

[Dickstick]

P62 pursuit paragraph 5.
C pursues into b conforming to flank contact
No evade
B conforms just before mêlée. (Ie after movement phase)
A never contacted.

No option to disengage. p44 bullet point 7
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Player 747 don't call me Jumbo

[AlanCutner]

I don't understand that answer. Why is A not contacted? I don't see how it can't be if it stays in the current position. And if its contacted by B wouldn't it be destroyed?

[daveallen]

[daveallen]

[Hazelbark]

[Ramses II]

As Dickstick says, the initial answer is on p62, which forces B to stay and fight, though it may conform at the start of it's turn. Once contacted by the pursuit it may neither evade, disengage or merely 'move away'.

If B chooses to conform, A would be displaced sideways (p53 displacing units), providing support to C. At that point A is now also in melee.

B may neither disengage from the initial contact on it's flank, nor if it conforms on C as it would now have A in contact with it's flank (p44 disengage).

The only ray of hope for B would be if another friend could contact A, destroying it since LI may not evade under these circumstances (p37), at which point B could disengage since cavalry are faster than the cataphracts.

[Dickstick]

Silly me to think p52 conforming.

Please where did I go wrong with para 2
Conforming is mandatory?
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Player 747 don't call me Jumbo

[Dickstick]

[quote="Ramses II"]As Dickstick says, the initial answer is on p62, which forces B to stay and fight, though it [b][i]may[/i][/b] conform at the start of it's turn. Once contacted by the pursuit it may neither evade, disengage or merely 'move away'.

If B chooses to conform, A would be displaced sideways (p53 displacing units), providing support to C. At that point A is now also in melee.

B may neither disengage from the initial contact on it's flank, nor if it conforms on C as it would now have A in contact with it's flank (p44 disengage).

The only ray of hope for B would be if another friend could contact A, destroying it since LI may not evade under these circumstances (p37), at which point B could disengage since cavalry are faster than the cataphracts.[/quote]

I support very little of what you say.
You seem to have not understood paragraph five P62 under pursuit.
There is no evade.
There is no disengage due to contact in flank in move phase
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Player 747 don't call me Jumbo

[Ramses II]

While p52 says conformation is mandatory, RAW the pursuers do not conform after a pursuit, (though p62 says the enemy unit may conform at the start of that player's turn).

p55 says that conformation is optional after a melee (although the latest FAQ on the timing of conformation makes subtle changes to this process).

I have raised these apparent anomalies with the French.

(And Dickstick, I thought we were in violent agreement about p62 . . .)

[Hazelbark]

Please read the FAQ on conforming.

Q : When can the units conform ?
A : Conformation can happen in 3 cases :
 Just after a charge, to align with the enemy.
 Just after a melee if a unit routs an opponent on its front and there is another opponent whose front is in contact with the unit’s flank or rear (as per p54). The conformation then replaces the pursuit.
 In the player’s turn mouvement phase, to align with an opponent already in contact (flank against flank, or corner against corner for instance). This is detailed on p55 (Conforming after a melee). The conformation then replaces the charge, which can’t take place because the units are already in contact.

[Ramses II]

Yup, the FAQ clarifies the timing of conformation after a melee, but does not otherwise replace the section on p55, which clearly states it is optional.
Likewise para #5 on p62 says the unit 'may' conform, not 'must' conform.

[Dickstick]

Ramses II

You are miss quoting rules

Any miss reading my words.

Too much for me to miss bed tonight correcting things
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Player 747 don't call me Jumbo

[Ramses II]

Um, if you are referring to your initial posts, then no, C does not conform on B when it makes contact during the pursuit. The units are as the diagram at the start of blue's turn.

I agree that B may not evade (p62), which also states B may conform at the start of it's turn. What else do we disagree on?

[plefebvre]

Hello Dave

I am afraid i made a mistake when we played together this situation and i apologize . I think that B cannot desengage in any case. It must conform front to front with C. Be doing that, it contacts A . I must now check what A must do, what is not clear for the rule doesn't give a correct answer to this particular case.
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patrick lefebvre

"sic transit gloria mundi"