Art De La Guerre

Laurence · Archer Inscrit le: 31 Mar 2017 Messages: 51

2 friendly units A and B, unit A's right front corner in contact with unit B's left corner.
B is 90 degrees off to A, i.e. in a classical flanking position (if A would be in melee to its front).

Enemy just needs 1 point to win. A has just 1 cohesion left, so a promising target.

An enemy unit, directly in front of A and outside the ZoCs of A and B, is advancing and contacts the front edge of A, exactly conformed.

Q1: During its move, the enemy's flank edge is in contact with the front edge of B.
However, is it a legal move of the enemy, and the contact with B is considered as a normal flank contact?

Q2: If conforming after the contact is made, only then the enemy's flank edge is in contact with the front edge of B...same question

Can someone clarify, with reference to the paragraph in the rulebook?

Ramses II · Post� le: Ven Nov 24, 2017 9:16 am Sujet du message:

Could you provide a diagram of some sort, as your description can be interpreted in several ways. However in principle, a unit may neither charge a unit through the ZoC of a different enemy, nor conform into the ZoC of a unit when attacking a flank of a different enemy. See p34, p54 and the latest FAQ

Laurence · Archer Inscrit le: 31 Mar 2017 Messages: 51

I am talking of a different situation, could not manage to upload my diagram for better explanation. But maybe this helps:

Take the diagram "Example of support No 2" on page 51. Just look at friends A1 and A2, enemy B1.

Imagine that B1 was starting an attack move towards A1 directly in front of A1, but outside the ZoC of A2.
B1 can pass through the ZoC of A2, because the ZoC of A1 is more threatening, p34).
But during its move, the flank of B1 contacts the front edge of A2. When B1 ends in melee with A1, B1 gets disordered as being flanked by A2.

Is the attack move legal and the flank contact is handled normally?

Ramses II · Post� le: Ven Nov 24, 2017 6:38 pm Sujet du message:

Hmm
I think I see your question better. While I accept that the ZoC's of both friendly units would exactly coincide, I think I would argue that in practice this is represented by the diagram "movements ina ZOC" on p34.

Effectively you are trying to move the HI into contact with B where unit C is in corner to corner contact with B, and this is forbidden. Does that make sense?

The point is that you may conform into an enemy ZoC, but you may not actually move through it to contact a different unit which is apparently what you are intending.

Laurence · Archer Inscrit le: 31 Mar 2017 Messages: 51

Ramses II · Post� le: Ven Nov 24, 2017 10:10 pm Sujet du message:

And that is part of the point of the diagram on p34.
In AdlG as soon as a unit makes contact with an enemy unit, even front corner to corner, it must conform with that unit (cf charge p50). In this case it would have to conform on C. Since it has not started behind the flank it would end up facing the front of C.

The fact that the ZoCs overlap is immaterial because the HI must stop upon contacting an enemy unit (C). If C is not actually touching B, the diag on p34 is in force even if the HI enters the ZoC of C after entering the ZoC of B.

Laurence · Archer Inscrit le: 31 Mar 2017 Messages: 51

Ramses II · Post� le: Sam Nov 25, 2017 2:24 am Sujet du message:

If this occurs as the result of a move into contact, a ‘charge’, then potentially yes the unit would suffer the -1 disorder for being in melee on two sides as well as having its base factor reduced to ‘0’ and losing special abilities (Impact etc), depending on the unit type of enemy B. All in all, not a good choice in most circumstances . . .

Laurence · Archer Inscrit le: 31 Mar 2017 Messages: 51

All clear now, many thanks Very Happy

Hazelbark · Magister Militum Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1670

Ramses II · Post� le: Dim Nov 26, 2017 10:07 pm Sujet du message:

My apologies, couldn’t remember where that bit was Embarassed