Art De La Guerre

daveallen · Post� le: Mer Avr 11, 2018 9:24 am Sujet du message: Flank factors

Knight Units A and Z are in side to side contact after melee (see p. 55)

There are no other units involved.

In its turn A conforms to the flank of Z.

What factors do they fight at?

I think it's 3:2, not 3:0 because

Dickstick · Post� le: Mer Avr 11, 2018 2:12 pm Sujet du message:

Unlikely Dave.
But I too am interested know for sure.
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Zoltan · Post� le: Jeu Avr 12, 2018 7:49 pm Sujet du message:

So when an enemy conforms onto my flank (no other units involved) that is not a charge and so I won’t start at 0??

daveallen · Post� le: Ven Avr 13, 2018 4:45 am Sujet du message:

That seems so, but it could be a mistranslation or just poor word choice.
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Ramses II · Post� le: Ven Avr 13, 2018 11:17 am Sujet du message:

Dave "Eagle eyes" Allen strikes again. Give the man a pint! RAW, that is indeed what it says, but not what was intended. This is really a matter of semantics.

Although we could add this to the ever growing FAQ, could we read the word "charged" as "attacked", so the phrase on p56 becomes

lionelrus · Post� le: Ven Avr 13, 2018 5:10 pm Sujet du message:

It's one of numerous cases of bad writting of rules...
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Maverick2909 · Post� le: Sam Avr 14, 2018 3:19 am Sujet du message:

The real question here is, after unit Z won his combat and followed up, why didn't he conform to unit A for free? You damn well know in unit A's turn he's gonna hit you on the flank anyway so you might as well make it a straight up fight for the two of you instead of taking it in the flank!

Dickstick · Post� le: Sam Avr 14, 2018 6:39 am Sujet du message:

Z won in his turn so can only stand or pursue one UD forward in his turn.
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Luddite · Archer Inscrit le: 15 Nov 2017 Messages: 52

Simple amendment to the text, change "charged" to "attacked". Job done. Very Happy

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Maverick2909 · Post� le: Sam Avr 14, 2018 2:31 pm Sujet du message:

Ramses II · Post� le: Dim Avr 15, 2018 9:37 am Sujet du message:

Nice try Maverick but no, a unit may not pursue up the flank of an enemy before it actually conforms to face that flank.

However, I suspect that in game the following occurred. The melee between A an Y was already going on. Z then moved into support by sliding up the flank of A, giving this diag

AAZZ
YY

But too late! Y was destroyed, and after the melee, A conformed on the flank of Z, giving the situation described.

Zoltan · Post� le: Dim Avr 15, 2018 9:43 am Sujet du message:

So is the conclusion that whenever a unit is contacted (attacked) on its flank (or rear) by the front edge of an enemy unit, it will always start at factor 0? It doesn't matter if the contact/attack is made by a charge, conform or pursuit move.

Ramses II · Post� le: Dim Avr 15, 2018 12:35 pm Sujet du message:

Provided it is is not contacted on its flank by light troops, then yes, the base factor will be reduced to zero.

Maverick2909 · Post� le: Dim Avr 15, 2018 2:11 pm Sujet du message:

Ramses please provide evidence of your assertion. From what I’m reading it’s perfectly legal to conform after a route movement.

Per page 55 under Conforming after a melee it says “after a route or disengage move a unit may still be in contact with the enemy without being in melee or in a position to support a friend in melee: front corner against front corner or side by side for example.”

It specifically cites that after the rout move you can conform to anyone else you’re in contact with. I don’t see why after the unit routed and Z made his one UD move he isn’t then allowed to conform as per the rules here.

Ramses II · Post� le: Dim Avr 15, 2018 5:12 pm Sujet du message:

The wording you quote should be sufficient.
Smile

In effect by moving forward, the unit has gone past melee into pursuit. (Remember the unit can only pursue at the end of its own move). So it is neither “after a rout” nor “after a disengage”.

But, if we consider the diagram above where unit A remains stationary in flank contact with Z, in the movement phase of the following turn it MAY turn for free because this IS Conforming after a melee (the other unit that was in front of it was destroyed).

Does that help?