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Gingerdave
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Inscrit le: 15 Sep 2017
Messages: 29
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 Posté le: Ven Mai 11, 2018 11:09 am Sujet du message: 101, Romano-British |
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This list puzzles me.
It should have all of the elements needed for a good army - Heavy Foot to go up the middle, decent cavalry for the open flank, and mediums to stand in terrain. 24-26 units usually.
However, I keep losing with it! 
So, back to the start and a look at the army. The last 2 variants have been:
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Competent, included.
4x HCv Impact Elite
2x HCv
2x LH
Brilliant
8x Hvy Spear
2x Med Spear
Ordinary
4x Med Sword
2x Bowmen
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A variant of the above I've not yet tried is to have 2 identical foot commands.
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Brilliant
4x HCv Impact Elite
4x HCv
Competent
8x Hvy Spear
2x LH
1x Levy (Expendable)
Ordinary
3x Med Sword
2x Lt Bow
2x Lt Javelin
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Yes, there are allies you can take - but this is an Arthurian army dammit, and it'll stay that way!
I'm sure there's plenty of other reasons it loses (mostly to do with the commander!  ) but any ideas on the army structure? |
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fdunadan
Tribun
Inscrit le: 12 Juin 2009
Messages: 984
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| Posté le: Ven Mai 11, 2018 12:46 pm Sujet du message: |
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Well, basically that sounds good.
How did you lose? was it under heavy fire from HCav Bow? was it facing HI or Phalanx? were you outmanoeuvered by a cavalry? are you playing each corps individually or do they support each other? what were the terrains?
Winning is not only the composition's problem, it also dépends of the terrain, the habits, and evidently, the opponent... 
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Audentes fortuna iuvat. |
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1669
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| Posté le: Ven Mai 11, 2018 2:14 pm Sujet du message: Re: 101, Romano-British |
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Competent
4x HCv Impact Elite
2x HCv
2x LH
1x Lt Bow
Ordinary
5x Hvy Spear
1x Lt Bow
Brilliant
3x Hvy Spear
1x Levy (Expendable)
3x Med Sword
2x Lt Javelin
2x HCv
So this I think uses the same units. Personally I would add more spear for width. But I would consider dropping expendable levy, can you include that ordinary commander even moving an HC there to do it from the large CV command. The ordinary corps is just marching into the foes face. The Brilliant Corps now supports that one (i'd think about only 1 lt jav if the points from the other savings can buy something useful. The two HC can skirmish or move as a flanking force or against some things try to protect flank of spear line. The big mounted corps is pretty dangerous to a lot of things. It takes some practice to run that with a competent so maybe swap the brilliant back to there. You now have a solid skirmish force and the impact force can either hug your spear line or go wide. Skirmish force slows someone to front, impact goes wide and tries envelop. When they turn to face impact force the skirmish force comes up and they stay pinched. Generally with an army like this the Medium infantry represent a distraction in my view not a helpful terrain force. You really only need 2 MI to prevent enemy bow from parking in terrain. IF someone has better MI then 3 MI isn't enough either. Just fight in the open like a proper fellow. |
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Gingerdave
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Inscrit le: 15 Sep 2017
Messages: 29
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| Posté le: Ven Mai 11, 2018 7:12 pm Sujet du message: |
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| fdunadan a écrit: | Well, basically that sounds good.
How did you lose? was it under heavy fire from HCav Bow? was it facing HI or Phalanx? were you outmanoeuvered by a cavalry? are you playing each corps individually or do they support each other? what were the terrains?
Winning is not only the composition's problem, it also dépends of the terrain, the habits, and evidently, the opponent... |
I lose in many ways!
I've been shot up by HCv Bow.
The spears were shot up then charged by HCv Bow Impact (yes I was at +1 factor higher than my opponent) and lost 6 combats.
1 game that I did win saw the heavy spears all charged by light chariots . . . I mnaged to lose most of those combats!
Last game, spears get 2 flanks charges and lose them both . . .
It does seem that the spears lose most of their combats. Even when I send them in with an advantage.
It's tempting to take the heavy spear as mediocre. That gives me 2 more units, and their inability to roll above a 3 won't matter! |
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Gingerdave
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Inscrit le: 15 Sep 2017
Messages: 29
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| Posté le: Ven Mai 11, 2018 7:20 pm Sujet du message: Re: 101, Romano-British |
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| Hazelbark a écrit: |
So this I think uses the same units. Personally I would add more spear for width. But I would consider dropping expendable levy, can you include that ordinary commander even moving an HC there to do it from the large CV command. The ordinary corps is just marching into the foes face. The Brilliant Corps now supports that one (i'd think about only 1 lt jav if the points from the other savings can buy something useful. The two HC can skirmish or move as a flanking force or against some things try to protect flank of spear line. The big mounted corps is pretty dangerous to a lot of things. It takes some practice to run that with a competent so maybe swap the brilliant back to there. You now have a solid skirmish force and the impact force can either hug your spear line or go wide. Skirmish force slows someone to front, impact goes wide and tries envelop. When they turn to face impact force the skirmish force comes up and they stay pinched. Generally with an army like this the Medium infantry represent a distraction in my view not a helpful terrain force. You really only need 2 MI to prevent enemy bow from parking in terrain. IF someone has better MI then 3 MI isn't enough either. Just fight in the open like a proper fellow. |
I'll have a look at this, how do you handle the different movement without running out of CP? |
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Mad Max
Légat
Inscrit le: 17 Fév 2014
Messages: 511
Localisation: Béthune
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| Posté le: Ven Mai 11, 2018 8:00 pm Sujet du message: Re: 101, Romano-British |
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| Hazelbark a écrit: | Competent
4x HCv Impact Elite
2x HCv
2x LH
1x Lt Bow
Ordinary
5x Hvy Spear
1x Lt Bow
Brilliant
3x Hvy Spear
1x Levy (Expendable)
3x Med Sword
2x Lt Javelin
2x HCv
. |
In my view, this is missing some shooters and/or LI as a screen in front of the spears. Like he says : they got shot by cv w/ bow...
But hey, who am i to speak ? 😀
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Maxime, Ch'tis Stratège de l'Artois
pas vraiment ch'ti, pas vraiment stratège, pas vraiment amateur d'art non plus |
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1669
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| Posté le: Ven Mai 11, 2018 10:04 pm Sujet du message: Re: 101, Romano-British |
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| Gingerdave a écrit: |
I'll have a look at this, how do you handle the different movement without running out of CP? |
So mostly there is not much difference if you stay grouped like kindergarten kids in a haunted mansion.
General with one group. Free CP
2nd Group 1st CP.
3rd group usually is covered by the modifier a Brilliant general always has this one and a competent has it 84%
Just don't mirv into smaller groups. Be willing to just forget LI if you have bad CP. Essentially always move expecting no more than 2 CP plus internal int he following turn. |
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Gingerdave
Barbare
Inscrit le: 15 Sep 2017
Messages: 29
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| Posté le: Ven Mai 11, 2018 10:30 pm Sujet du message: Re: 101, Romano-British |
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| Mad Max a écrit: | In my view, this is missing some shooters and/or LI as a screen in front of the spears. Like he says : they got shot by cv w/ bow...
But hey, who am i to speak ? 😀 |
There's not many available!
0-2 Bowmen or LI bow
0-2 LI Javelin
Not really enough for a decent screen.
The idea for the Med Swords and all the LI is to march up through any rough terrain on the flanks and outnumber the enemy there. With only 4 skirmishers it's best to concentrate. Maybe? |
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madaxeman
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014
Messages: 1599
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
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| Posté le: Ven Mai 11, 2018 11:03 pm Sujet du message: Re: 101, Romano-British |
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| Gingerdave a écrit: | | The idea for the Med Swords and all the LI is to march up through any rough terrain on the flanks and outnumber the enemy there. With only 4 skirmishers it's best to concentrate. Maybe? |
And when your opponent ignores the terrain on that flank and sits 2 Impact cavalry outside waiting for you to come out, which with MF movement will anyway only happen some 4-5 turns later when the rest of their army has overwhelmed the rest of yours ..?
Or when your 3 MF meet like, erm, 4 or 5 MF in a load of terrain chosen by an opponent with lots of MF?
In this army there arent enough MF to win in terrain - they are fast reserves and flank support for the foot, and can protect their flanks in rough a little
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fdunadan
Tribun
Inscrit le: 12 Juin 2009
Messages: 984
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| Posté le: Sam Mai 12, 2018 1:02 pm Sujet du message: |
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Here are some hints:
1) If you play against regularly the same opponent(s) and army(ies), you can choose troops best suited to match theirs. against HC bow, try LMI Bow or mix Cav with spears to have some punch against them.
See your strong points and play them: make 2 corps with 6 HI Spear and charge on one opponent corps. Rally if you lose combat and use the MI to outflank.
2) change your dice.
3) maybe you've been cursed. Check if your house is built on an ancient indian cemetery. Have you been mean to an old gypsie woman recently?...
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Audentes fortuna iuvat. |
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Mad Max
Légat
Inscrit le: 17 Fév 2014
Messages: 511
Localisation: Béthune
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| Posté le: Sam Mai 12, 2018 1:30 pm Sujet du message: |
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I've not been able to try this army that i've built on papier...
brillant general
4 hh impact elite
2 lh javelin poor
2 lf javelin (may be moved to 2nd corps)
Ordinary general
7 h spear
2 bow
1 m spear
Competent general
4 hh
2 mf
I don't like having all my cavalry or all my medium troops in one corps
'coz i' m that bad in terrain selection and battle planning, so i must be able to correct my plans
'not too good at correcting my mistakes either mind you...
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Maxime, Ch'tis Stratège de l'Artois
pas vraiment ch'ti, pas vraiment stratège, pas vraiment amateur d'art non plus |
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Gingerdave
Barbare
Inscrit le: 15 Sep 2017
Messages: 29
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| Posté le: Dim Mai 13, 2018 1:58 pm Sujet du message: Re: 101, Romano-British |
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| madaxeman a écrit: | | In this army there arent enough MF to win in terrain - they are fast reserves and flank support for the foot, and can protect their flanks in rough a little |
Good points
It's possible to take medium spearmenr in this army so:
Brilliant
4x HCv Impact Elite
4x HCv
Competent
6x Hvy Spear
1x Lt Bow
2x LH Mediocre
Ordinary
2x Med Spear
4x Med Swords
2x Lt Javelin
6 mediums and javelins should be able to handle rough ground? Or the Javelins could be moved to the centre and the flank has to do without!
| fdunadan a écrit: | Here are some hints:
1) If you play against regularly the same opponent(s) and army(ies), you can choose troops best suited to match theirs. against HC bow, try LMI Bow or mix Cav with spears to have some punch against them.
See your strong points and play them: make 2 corps with 6 HI Spear and charge on one opponent corps. Rally if you lose combat and use the MI to outflank.
2) change your dice.
3) maybe you've been cursed. Check if your house is built on an ancient indian cemetery. Have you been mean to an old gypsie woman recently?... |
1) I've got several regular opponents, each with several lists. I also do a few tournaments, so I'm trying to get a list that can handle most enemies.
2) The same dice do pretty well with my classical indians, or the Gauls!
3) Not too many Indian cemeteries in Yorkshire, but it's worth a look! 
How about:
Brilliant
4x HCv Impact Elite
4x HCv
Competent
6x Hvy Spear
2x Lt Javelin
2x LH Mediocre
1x Med Sword
Ordinary
3x Hvy Spear
1x Med Sword
1x Bowmen
1x Levy (Expendable)
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The Cavalry work together on one flank - the ordinary HCv get in the face of the enemy so they'll hae trouble turning, while the Impact HCv go up the flank.
The competent spear command goes up the middle with the Medium swords as reserve or flank.
The ordinary command goes up the other flank, with the heavies next to the centre command and the mediums on the end. The levy hang back to look after the camp a bit (no fortified camp in this list). |
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