Art De La Guerre

Dickstick · Post� le: Sam Juin 19, 2021 10:45 pm Sujet du message: Wheels of change?

My flank command has been screened by light troops so it wheels to face the middle ground.
I pivot my four Hi spear so their outer end goes 2 UD while the two bowmen on the outer end goes 3 UD. Been doing this for years under v3 , so happy to find same rule p31 bullet point 2 . No one exceeded there own max speed.

Am I no longer able to wheel so fast under bullet point 4?

Am I mistaken?
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Player 747 don't call me Jumbo

SteveR · Prétorien Inscrit le: 21 Mar 2018 Messages: 287

Sorry no you cannot do it.

Page 31 bullet 4 - all units in a group count as having moved the distance of the outermost front corner. So the HI spear count as having moved 3 UD.

I actually think this was not allowed under V3 either...

However remember if the group was more than 4 UD from all enemies of course.

Dickstick · Post� le: Dim Juin 20, 2021 8:25 am Sujet du message:

Also under General rules p29 Bp4 they can!

P29 and 32 bp2 are exactly as v3 had it.
P32 bp4 is the new spanner in the works.

What is the point of writing both variants.?
One should be deleted as they contradict unless anyone can explain why/when they don't.
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Player 747 don't call me Jumbo

AlanCutner · Post� le: Dim Juin 20, 2021 1:31 pm Sujet du message:

I don't see a conflict here. P29 all units in the group can move up to their maximum distance, but (p31) all count as moving the distance of the outermost unit. So a group of Sp with a bw on the end can have the Bw wheel 3UD as long as no Sp moves more than 2UD. The main impact of this is for unmanouverable units - no unit in the group counts as moving less than maximum speed.

madaxeman · Post� le: Dim Juin 20, 2021 1:38 pm Sujet du message:

Dickstick · Post� le: Dim Juin 20, 2021 1:39 pm Sujet du message:

Alan
Does the spear not cout as moving 3 UD because the bow did?
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Player 747 don't call me Jumbo

AlanCutner · Post� le: Dim Juin 20, 2021 1:53 pm Sujet du message:

Dickstick · Post� le: Dim Juin 20, 2021 3:19 pm Sujet du message:

So are we happy to ignore bp4 because it adds nothing to the rules?
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Player 747 don't call me Jumbo

AlanCutner · Post� le: Dim Juin 20, 2021 5:57 pm Sujet du message:

Not quite. P31 bullet 4 is very important for unmanouverable troops. Means a wheel is just 1CP rather than 2CP if the outermost point moves at full speed. But probably not much effect otherwise.

Dickstick · Post� le: Dim Juin 20, 2021 6:13 pm Sujet du message:

That was okay under v3 so still puzzled as to why the additional BP
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Player 747 don't call me Jumbo

vexillia · Post� le: Lun Juin 21, 2021 9:33 am Sujet du message:

vexillia · Post� le: Lun Juin 21, 2021 4:05 pm Sujet du message:

Longtooth · Post� le: Lun Juin 21, 2021 6:46 pm Sujet du message:

......except that HI and Cav cannot form a group Smile

vexillia · Post� le: Lun Juin 21, 2021 6:52 pm Sujet du message:

vexillia · Post� le: Mar Juin 22, 2021 8:45 am Sujet du message:

Back on topic. Consider the reverse situation to the OP:

A line on 4Kn with 1 Cv or LH on the right making a 5 wide group.
The group wheels to the left.
To ensure the right most Kn moves exactly 3 UD the Cv (or LH) must move 3.8 UD
End result: the rightmost Kn has moved full (3 UD) but the Cv (or LH) have not.

So using the "Madaxeman interpretation" above:

All the Kn "counts as" moving 3.8 UD.
This doesn't matter as, on the table, none of the Kn exceeded their 3 UD move distance.
The Kn "counts as" moving their full move (3.8 > 3.0 UD).
As a consequence the Kn do not suffer any penalties for moving short.

Have I got this right or do I have to invoke the Liverpool Variation?
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Martin Stephenson