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KevinD
Légat
Inscrit le: 23 Aoû 2021
Messages: 647
Localisation: Texas
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 Posté le: Jeu Déc 02, 2021 11:42 pm Sujet du message: Contractions - which units can drop back? |
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Does a contraction have to involve dropping back a unit one flank or the other of a line/block, or can you drop back a unit in the middle of a line?
For example, can
ABCD
advance (at least one UD) up the page and contract into
ACD
B
? |
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Dickstick
Tribun
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2016
Messages: 721
Localisation: West Bromwich
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| Posté le: Ven Déc 03, 2021 11:16 am Sujet du message: |
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The opening paragraph under Contraction p33 says it is the reverse of extension which expands the front rank to the left or right..
Moving units behind those who have advanced come from to right or left of the group. No mention of being from the centre.
Moving two groups forward to slide back into contact is illegal under p30 slide restrictions.. To do such a thing is requiring two group moves.
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AlanCutner
Tribun
Inscrit le: 03 Nov 2014
Messages: 747
Localisation: Scotland
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| Posté le: Ven Déc 03, 2021 12:58 pm Sujet du message: |
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| Citation: | The opening paragraph under Contraction p33 says it is the reverse of extension which expands the front rank to the left or right..
Moving units behind those who have advanced come from to right or left of the group. No mention of being from the centre. |
Your answer confuses me. An extension could be
A
B
C
D
to ABCD.
So a reverse could be
ACD
B |
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Dickstick
Tribun
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2016
Messages: 721
Localisation: West Bromwich
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| Posté le: Ven Déc 03, 2021 1:10 pm Sujet du message: |
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No.
Reverse would be first
ABC
D
or
BCD
A
then second
AB
CD
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AlanCutner
Tribun
Inscrit le: 03 Nov 2014
Messages: 747
Localisation: Scotland
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| Posté le: Ven Déc 03, 2021 4:28 pm Sujet du message: |
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I now have the rule book to hand. The full description is
"This is the reverse manoeuvre of an extension,i.e. a reduction in the frontal width of a group by advancing the lead units straight forward....
So the reverse bit does not mean you reverse the extension procedure, its just a clarification of whats meant by a contraction.
Within the rules section there is no restriction on which units can be placed behind the lead unit within the maximum allowed according to their movement allowance. |
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babyshark
Légionaire
Inscrit le: 19 Jan 2015
Messages: 136
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| Posté le: Ven Déc 03, 2021 5:54 pm Sujet du message: |
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| AlanCutner a écrit: | I now have the rule book to hand. The full description is
"This is the reverse manoeuvre of an extension,i.e. a reduction in the frontal width of a group by advancing the lead units straight forward....
So the reverse bit does not mean you reverse the extension procedure, its just a clarification of whats meant by a contraction.
Within the rules section there is no restriction on which units can be placed behind the lead unit within the maximum allowed according to their movement allowance. |
That is how I read it.
marc |
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Zoltan
Légat
Inscrit le: 18 Jan 2015
Messages: 500
Localisation: Wellington, New Zealand
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| Posté le: Ven Déc 03, 2021 7:19 pm Sujet du message: |
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So perhaps the rules really should use the word “opposite†rather than “reverseâ€? 🤔
Reverse suggests to retrace (step by step), rewind etc, talking about the mechanics of the action.
Opposite implies the end state: from line to column; from column to line, regardless of the mechanics of getting there. |
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Dickstick
Tribun
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2016
Messages: 721
Localisation: West Bromwich
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| Posté le: Ven Déc 03, 2021 11:26 pm Sujet du message: |
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So are you happy that some of the lead unit don't go straight forward?
How much out of straight does it take to not be an illegal slide?
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madaxeman
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014
Messages: 1599
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
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| Posté le: Ven Déc 03, 2021 11:34 pm Sujet du message: |
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| Dickstick a écrit: | So are you happy that some of the lead unit don't go straight forward?
How much out of straight does it take to not be an illegal slide? |
Seems like quoting the rules has successfully shaken out an answer chaps and chapesses.
The lead units need to move straight forward. Others slot in behind.Â
That does I believe de facto mean only units on the outside edges of a group can be contracted, otherwise the front units will need to slide sideways to maintain a group.Â
Applause all round !
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015
Messages: 1236
Localisation: London
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| Posté le: Sam Déc 04, 2021 12:20 am Sujet du message: |
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Spot on MX
 |
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1669
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| Posté le: Sam Déc 04, 2021 4:49 am Sujet du message: |
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| madaxeman a écrit: |
That does I believe de facto mean only units on the outside edges of a group can be contracted, otherwise the front units will need to slide sideways to maintain a group.Â
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P 34 top diagram. |
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Za Otlichiye
Signifer
Inscrit le: 07 Sep 2021
Messages: 341
Localisation: Lovecraft country (and you Dan?)
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| Posté le: Sam Déc 04, 2021 3:50 pm Sujet du message: |
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I don't understand page 34 top diagram at all.
I don't see any way that can be considered a contraction of 1, nor a legal contraction of 3. Three elements should advance and the lone element fall in behind. |
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AlanCutner
Tribun
Inscrit le: 03 Nov 2014
Messages: 747
Localisation: Scotland
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| Posté le: Sam Déc 04, 2021 6:43 pm Sujet du message: |
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| Citation: | | I don't see any way that can be considered a contraction of 1, nor a legal contraction of 3. Three elements should advance and the lone element fall in behind. |
Owning player chooses how many units are 'lead' units. Those advance, and all other units slot in behind. Top diagram shows what happens if there is just one lead unit, and the other diagram if there are two lead units. |
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Za Otlichiye
Signifer
Inscrit le: 07 Sep 2021
Messages: 341
Localisation: Lovecraft country (and you Dan?)
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| Posté le: Sam Déc 04, 2021 7:02 pm Sujet du message: |
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| Citation: | | ...by advancing the lead units straight forward and then moving the units located to the right and/or left behind the units which have advanced. |
Only one of the three lagging units has moved behind a lead unit.
OK a narrow interpretation will cause problems if there are, say, 2 units in the front rank of the group and 5 in the second - although you could define the group differently to avoid some issues.
----
Question - is the number of units allowed to contract per rank, or total in the group? |
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madaxeman
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014
Messages: 1599
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
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| Posté le: Sam Déc 04, 2021 7:42 pm Sujet du message: |
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| Za Otlichiye a écrit: | | OK a narrow interpretation will cause problems if... |
Probably easiest therefore to work on the basis of all of the rest of us not using a narrow interpretation... 
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