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Daveh
Frondeur
Inscrit le: 10 Déc 2021 Messages: 4
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Posté le: Ven Déc 10, 2021 4:09 pm Sujet du message: When does the +1 for fighting LMI and MI sword count? |
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I have a question, if my impact Cav pursue into either LMI or MI swordsmen, who are not fighting another enemy, do they get +1 in the 1st round of combat?
It is a new enemy, not a continuing melee - see p.60, General Rules, 2nd paragraph. Therefore, it must be the 1st round of a melee.
The impact doesn't count because it's a pursuit.
The +1 is shown as a combat factor on p.22.
The Melee Resolution on p.62 then says you compare the combat factors to achieve a differential.
Similarly do you recieve the +1 if impetuous troops pursue and end in coner to corner contact and you then cornform.
Is it possible we could get a definitive answer on this question from the author? |
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KevinD
Légat
Inscrit le: 23 Aoû 2021 Messages: 501
Localisation: Texas
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Posté le: Ven Déc 10, 2021 5:06 pm Sujet du message: |
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Daveh a écrit: | I have a question, if my impact Cav pursue into either LMI or MI swordsmen, who are not fighting another enemy, do they get +1 in the 1st round of combat?
It is a new enemy, not a continuing melee - see p.60, General Rules, 2nd paragraph. Therefore, it must be the 1st round of a melee.
The impact doesn't count because it's a pursuit.
The +1 is shown as a combat factor on p.22.
The Melee Resolution on p.62 then says you compare the combat factors to achieve a differential.
Similarly do you recieve the +1 if impetuous troops pursue and end in coner to corner contact and you then cornform.
Is it possible we could get a definitive answer on this question from the author? |
No for many reasons (as I understand it):
1. Combats resulting from pursuits never allow you to use first round factors - these are reserved for charges only. (Even if the rules might not literally read that way.)
2. Impact cavalry never get the +1 for non-Impact Cv vs. LMI MI Sw even if their impact ability is cancelled. They have to not possess the ability in the first place , not just have it cancelled or not apply in a particular combat for whatever reason.
I asked this question a few months ago using much the same reasoning and the above was the consensus answer. |
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Daveh
Frondeur
Inscrit le: 10 Déc 2021 Messages: 4
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Posté le: Dim Déc 12, 2021 4:54 pm Sujet du message: |
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That makes sense otherwise they would be able to count if their opponent had stakes and the impact was cancelled. |
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1550
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Posté le: Lun Déc 13, 2021 4:27 pm Sujet du message: |
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This has repeatedly been clarified. A pursuit into a new unit is not a 1st round benefits. |
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Daveh
Frondeur
Inscrit le: 10 Déc 2021 Messages: 4
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Posté le: Lun Déc 13, 2021 9:06 pm Sujet du message: |
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Just so I know, where does it say that in the rules? |
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madaxeman
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014 Messages: 1476
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
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Posté le: Mar Déc 14, 2021 12:03 am Sujet du message: |
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Daveh a écrit: | Just so I know, where does it say that in the rules? |
If it said this in the rules, I suspect it would not have needed to be clarified here and other places repeatedly ....
More seriously though, there’s a line at the end of the pursuit section that says something like ...â€these sorts of combats don’t count as chargesâ€. _________________ www.madaxeman.com |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015 Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
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Posté le: Mar Déc 14, 2021 1:10 am Sujet du message: |
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Ok, to be clear on this, we need to step back from the detail and read the definitions of the key actions.
If you sitting comfortably, then I will begin
- Contacting the enemy (p41) states
A unit that comes into contact with a new enemy, even with a single corner contact, engages in combat with that enemy. The unit must then conform (see p
50). Contact can take place in the following cases:
- During a charge (see p 42).
- When moving to contact an enemy already in
melee to support a friendly unit (see p 60).
- During a pursuit after combat (see p 69).
- CHARGE (P42) states
Definition
A charge is a move in which a unit engages in combat with an enemy. The units must contact the enemy with part of its front edge (even a single corner). The charge stops once contact with the target is made. The charging unit or group must then conform (see p 50). A charge allows units to claim those bonuses that are only valid during the first round of a melee
- PURSUIT (P69) states
When a unit has routed all its opponents in melee, it can perform a pursuit at the end of the melee phase. Pursuit moves are conducted after routs. Only the phasing player’s units can perform a pursuit.
[SNIP]
Contacting new enemies
Pursuit movement may bring the pursuing unit into contact with a new enemy - If the enemy does not evade, the combat will be resolved in the next melee phase. The combat will not be considered as a charge.
So in summary, units only get these 'extra' bonuses during the first round of a charge, and a pursuit is by definition NOT a charge.
(Neither is conformation after a melee). |
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Daveh
Frondeur
Inscrit le: 10 Déc 2021 Messages: 4
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Posté le: Mar Déc 14, 2021 1:30 am Sujet du message: |
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Thanks for that, I hadn't spotted the bit on p.42 - I'll shut up about this know and hang my head in shame in the corner ...
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014 Messages: 1550
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Posté le: Mer Déc 15, 2021 12:03 am Sujet du message: |
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Daveh a écrit: | Thanks for that, I hadn't spotted the bit on p.42 - I'll shut up about this know and hang my head in shame in the corner ...
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No don't do that. The problem is some trolls push repeatedly and are just argumentative. So people sometimes are short fused. |
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Black Prince
Prétorien
Inscrit le: 17 Oct 2016 Messages: 291
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Posté le: Sam Déc 18, 2021 1:16 am Sujet du message: |
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If a unit pursues and contacts an enemy in the flank, does the enemy unit in it movement phase get to turn and conform to the pursuer's front edge before any melee is resolved? |
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KevinD
Légat
Inscrit le: 23 Aoû 2021 Messages: 501
Localisation: Texas
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Posté le: Sam Déc 18, 2021 1:35 am Sujet du message: |
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Black Prince a écrit: | If a unit pursues and contacts an enemy in the flank, does the enemy unit in it movement phase get to turn and conform to the pursuer's front edge before any melee is resolved? |
Assuming the enemy you contacted was not in melee already, I think so. See the p 69, top right, second bullet. |
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Za Otlichiye
Signifer
Inscrit le: 07 Sep 2021 Messages: 341
Localisation: Lovecraft country (and you Dan?)
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Posté le: Sam Déc 18, 2021 3:32 am Sujet du message: |
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It must turn. See page 52. |
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