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micheni
Javelinier
Inscrit le: 03 Nov 2014 Messages: 11
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Posté le: Mar Déc 28, 2021 3:32 pm Sujet du message: Longbow shooting armoured elephant |
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What is the factor for an elephant with armour ability when shot at by a unit of longbowmen_´;
1 or 0 ; cause in page 58 it talks about longbow reduces the BASIC protection by 1 and armour ability is not Basic protection value
Thx in advance ! |
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fdunadan
Tribun
Inscrit le: 12 Juin 2009 Messages: 978
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Posté le: Mar Déc 28, 2021 3:55 pm Sujet du message: |
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If it is a crossbow, the factor is 0 (p 58 )
if it is a longbow, the factor is 0 (p 58 )
basically, the protection is 1 for the armor and the longbow give a -1, so 0.
In french version, longbow reduce the protection of everyone by 1, except for Wwg, Art, LI and LH. _________________ Audentes fortuna iuvat. |
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Za Otlichiye
Signifer
Inscrit le: 07 Sep 2021 Messages: 341
Localisation: Lovecraft country (and you Dan?)
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Posté le: Mar Déc 28, 2021 7:07 pm Sujet du message: |
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Don't forget the +1 for bow and crossbow shooting mounted.
The English version says the same - except perhaps it says the basic protection is reduced by one. This gets even more confusing with Knights, etc. who have their armor benefits included in their Protection factors on page 22 table. |
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lionelrus
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 21 Mar 2009 Messages: 4700
Localisation: paris
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Posté le: Mar Déc 28, 2021 8:22 pm Sujet du message: |
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The basic protection includes all armors.
Ie heavy lancer armored has a basic protection of 2
Armored elephant has basic protection 1
In fact, armor increases basic protection. The notion of basic protection is use to made difference between protection in tne open and protection in forest, by exemple.
Be a bowman in plantation shooting by a longbowman. The target has a protection of +1 due to plantation. As his basic protection is 0, the longbowman don't reduce the peotection. _________________ "Quand on a pas de technique, faut y aller à la zob"
Perceval à Yvain et Gauvain. |
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Za Otlichiye
Signifer
Inscrit le: 07 Sep 2021 Messages: 341
Localisation: Lovecraft country (and you Dan?)
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Posté le: Mar Déc 28, 2021 8:53 pm Sujet du message: |
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While on the subject, does:
Citation: |
The protection of Pavises plus the protection of armour cannot exceed 3 points in total.
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mean Foot Knights do not benefit from Pavises? Otherwise 1+2 cannot exceed 3... |
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Black Prince
Prétorien
Inscrit le: 17 Oct 2016 Messages: 290
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Posté le: Mer Déc 29, 2021 5:26 am Sujet du message: |
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lionelrus a écrit: | The basic protection includes all armors.
Ie heavy lancer armored has a basic protection of 2
Armored elephant has basic protection 1
In fact, armor increases basic protection. The notion of basic protection is use to made difference between protection in tne open and protection in forest, by exemple.
Be a bowman in plantation shooting by a longbowman. The target has a protection of +1 due to plantation. As his basic protection is 0, the longbowman don't reduce the peotection. |
That is a clever way of doing it, I do like the subtleties in these rules. |
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KevinD
Centurion
Inscrit le: 23 Aoû 2021 Messages: 499
Localisation: Texas
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Posté le: Mer Déc 29, 2021 6:47 am Sujet du message: |
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Black Prince a écrit: | lionelrus a écrit: | The basic protection includes all armors.
Ie heavy lancer armored has a basic protection of 2
Armored elephant has basic protection 1
In fact, armor increases basic protection. The notion of basic protection is use to made difference between protection in tne open and protection in forest, by exemple.
Be a bowman in plantation shooting by a longbowman. The target has a protection of +1 due to plantation. As his basic protection is 0, the longbowman don't reduce the peotection. |
That is a clever way of doing it, I do like the subtleties in these rules. |
Cover gives a -1 to the shooter, not a +1 to the target. |
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Black Prince
Prétorien
Inscrit le: 17 Oct 2016 Messages: 290
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Posté le: Mer Déc 29, 2021 10:58 am Sujet du message: |
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Yes, you are correct, my mistake. |
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lionelrus
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 21 Mar 2009 Messages: 4700
Localisation: paris
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Posté le: Mer Déc 29, 2021 8:13 pm Sujet du message: |
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Za Otlichiye a écrit: | While on the subject, does:
Citation: |
The protection of Pavises plus the protection of armour cannot exceed 3 points in total.
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mean Foot Knights do not benefit from Pavises? Otherwise 1+2 cannot exceed 3... |
As i can remenber, Kn never have pavise.
basic protection of foot kn is 3. _________________ "Quand on a pas de technique, faut y aller à la zob"
Perceval à Yvain et Gauvain. |
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lionelrus
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 21 Mar 2009 Messages: 4700
Localisation: paris
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Posté le: Mer Déc 29, 2021 8:21 pm Sujet du message: |
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KevinD a écrit: | Black Prince a écrit: | lionelrus a écrit: | The basic protection includes all armors.
Ie heavy lancer armored has a basic protection of 2
Armored elephant has basic protection 1
In fact, armor increases basic protection. The notion of basic protection is use to made difference between protection in tne open and protection in forest, by exemple.
Be a bowman in plantation shooting by a longbowman. The target has a protection of +1 due to plantation. As his basic protection is 0, the longbowman don't reduce the peotection. |
That is a clever way of doing it, I do like the subtleties in these rules. |
Cover gives a -1 to the shooter, not a +1 to the target. |
Well, so i give official TB answer:
basic protection include all armor and pavise protection. _________________ "Quand on a pas de technique, faut y aller à la zob"
Perceval à Yvain et Gauvain. |
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Mike Bennett
Centurion
Inscrit le: 11 Nov 2017 Messages: 489
Localisation: Carnforth, Lancashire, UK
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Posté le: Jeu Déc 30, 2021 12:50 am Sujet du message: |
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lionelrus a écrit: |
Well, so i give official TB answer:
basic protection include all armor and pavise protection. |
Well that is a surprise. I had anticipated armour, but not pavise. So crossbow with pavise are no better than without when shot at by longbow. |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015 Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
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Posté le: Jeu Déc 30, 2021 2:01 am Sujet du message: |
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Hi Lionelrus, I agree with you that the basic factor includes the armour bonus.- So the armoured elephant would have a basic factor of 0 +1 = 1
- A unit of crossbowmen shooting at an elephant would cause it’s basic factor to be “1†irrespective of the armour,
- A unit of longbowmen would reduce the elephant’s basic factor to “0†irrespective of the armour.Â
However, Pavisse (P59) adds +1 to the unit after the crossbow / firearm / longbow modifier is applied (but not artillery or incendiary). |
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lionelrus
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 21 Mar 2009 Messages: 4700
Localisation: paris
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Posté le: Jeu Déc 30, 2021 8:27 pm Sujet du message: |
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Ramses II a écrit: | Hi Lionelrus, I agree with you that the basic factor includes the armour bonus.- So the armoured elephant would have a basic factor of 0 +1 = 1
- A unit of crossbowmen shooting at an elephant would cause it’s basic factor to be “1†irrespective of the armour,
- A unit of longbowmen would reduce the elephant’s basic factor to “0†irrespective of the armour.Â
However, Pavisse (P59) adds +1 to the unit after the crossbow / firearm / longbow modifier is applied (but not artillery or incendiary). |
Mike and Ramses are right, of course.... _________________ "Quand on a pas de technique, faut y aller à la zob"
Perceval à Yvain et Gauvain. |
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micheni
Javelinier
Inscrit le: 03 Nov 2014 Messages: 11
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Posté le: Dim Jan 02, 2022 2:22 pm Sujet du message: |
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[quote="Ramses II"]Hi Lionelrus, I agree with you that the basic factor includes the armour bonus.- So the armoured elephant would have a basic factor of 0 +1 = 1
- A unit of crossbowmen shooting at an elephant would cause it’s basic factor to be “1†irrespective of the armour,
- A unit of longbowmen would reduce the elephant’s basic factor to “0†irrespective of the armour.Â
However, Pavisse (P59) adds +1 to the unit after the crossbow / firearm / longbow modifier is applied (but not artillery or incendiary).[/quot
All units except elephants have protection 0 when shot at by xbows |
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KevinD
Centurion
Inscrit le: 23 Aoû 2021 Messages: 499
Localisation: Texas
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Posté le: Dim Jan 02, 2022 2:55 pm Sujet du message: |
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micheni a écrit: | All units except elephants have protection 0 when shot at by xbows |
No.
All units except WWg and El have a protection of 1 when shot at by XBows. (Do not add anything for armor or heavy armor.) Not 0. |
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