Art De La Guerre

[Ramses II]

I am posting this because in recent discussions with club members, it has become apparent that some may be unaware of the subtle changes to the Charge Process. This affects those situations where there are more than one enemy group in the path of the charge.

P43, Step #1 requires the attacking player to specify the Initial Target of the charge, which must be reachable without passing through any enemy units, (but note the LI exception). By definition this is a single target, and the rest of P43 is written with respect to this Initial Target.
So players use Step #5 if the Initial Target remains static, Step #6 if it evades, and Step #7 if part evades leaving some static units. (Other enemy behind the Initial Target are all Secondary Targets P44).

The difference from V3 of the rules is that where there are several potential ‘targets’ in the charge path and the Initial Target evades, the chargers are required to make a Variable Movement roll (Step #6). This may result in the chargers rolling ‘short’ and not contacting the enemy behind the Initial Target. 

NOTE
Please check P13 for the complete list of ‘heavy’ troops that LI must evade from if charged in the open. Consequently, heavy troops may declare a charge on an Initial Target that lies beyond the enemy LI skirmish screen in open terrain. 

[lionelrus]

They doesn't read rulebook?
_________________
"Quand on a pas de technique, faut y aller à la zob"
Perceval à Yvain et Gauvain.

[KevinD]

Thank you for posting this!

Maybe it’s all clear if one analyzes the rule book correctly, but sometimes (often?) I am unsure if my (overly?) literal reading of the rules is correct or if I’m adding in things not really intended to be in the rules.

So, to make sure I understand this, if a group charges and two targets (not behind each other) lie in the group’s path, but the closest target evades then the chargers must roll to see if it can reach the further target, and furthermore (if the chargers do not contain any impetuous units) the charger can halt after 1-2 UDs (depending on whether it is foot or mounted) and avoid hitting the further target if it wishes. Correct?

Example:

AABB

11……
……22

If AABB (HC Impact) charge 11 (LC 2.5 UDs away) and 11 evades then AABB must roll to see if they can reach 22 (3.5 UDs away), and if they roll 1-2 they can’t charge 22, and no matter what they roll AABB (not being impetuous) can choose to stop short and not contact 22. Is this correct?

[Za Otlichiye]

WOW! This has become a burning question for me in the past week or so as I went through all the posts here. My original thought was that the "initial target"/"initial targets" were everything that would be struck once the attacker wheeled or slid. But I realized there were some subtle choices the attacker could make (the stop in support or continue against the MTE choice in particular) that this wasn't necessarily a single outcome. So it occurred to me that maybe the initial target designation was the attacker's choice. Because it controls how many must evade before ACD takes effect, it's important to both attacker and defender.

And as a side note, I could read the process 100 times and not be sure of the answer.

[Ramses II]

[Za Otlichiye]

When page 43 says:

[Ramses II]

[Zoltan]

[Ramses II]

As I said originally, I posted this because it has become clear that some people were unaware of this subtle but important change in the rules. And I must apologize; I used the term "single target" for simplicity. In practice this is the unit or units that will be contacted first simultaneously (ie without passing through any enemy units). We then use Steps #5, #6 or #7 to determine how the chargers move and conform etc.

Using your example, usually either a or b will be contacted first and thus become the Initial Target with the results you describe. However, where they are exactly the same distance from the chargers, I agree that they both become the Initial Target. (For example this might occur where a-b was originally a group of units but one or more have been destroyed by shooting).

[SteveR]

I had this pointed out to me a few months ago and it still messes me up a bit, so your posting is helpful

The biggest thing for me is that Step 1 on page 43 refers to a singular initial target (and Ramses originally emphasized this) but steps 5, 6 and 7 use the plural.

Which only matters for the step 7 case when a group charges another group

Using Kevin's example

If player AABB declares 11 as the initial target then there is a roll to see if 22 can be reached in the event 11 evades.

If player AABB declares 22 as the initial target then there is no roll.

But Ramses goes on to say that you must declare the first unit which the group will contact as the initial target. That is a not unreasonable reading of the restriction in the second bullet of step 1.

However Player AABB, if sufficiently out of the ZOC of the enemy and with sufficient movement, could presumably wheel and charge on a line which allows simultaneous contact with both units.

[Zoltan]

[Za Otlichiye]

So:

[Ramses II]

@SteveR
The key phrase is without passing through any enemy units. Let us assume that the chargers can wheel into a position where they can contact both 11 and 22 simultaneously. In this case both become the Initial Target. 

If we bear in mind that P43 just relates to the Initial Target, then we use Step #5 when the Initial Target remains static, Step #6 where it entirely evades, but Step #7 only comes into play where some of the Initial Target units evade while others don’t eg 11 evades while 22 doesn’t.

I agree the use of plurals is confusing, and P43 could have been better phrased - I suggest this is probably be due to translation errors. 

[Za Otlichiye]

Again, when step 5 or 7 comes into play, are you required to attack all reachable defenders, or just the initial targets which did not evade?

[Zoltan]