wuzhuiqiu8888
Javelinier
Inscrit le: 05 Mai 2022
Messages: 11
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 Posté le: Dim Jan 07, 2024 12:20 am Sujet du message: |
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| Mark G Fry a écrit: | Somewhat late to this debate, but surely Naginata are HCW not polearm.
Polearms specifically have a pointed blade as well as a cutting bladed element. So are designed to fend off an attendant- on foot or mounted, as well as deliver a percussive blow.
Naginata, whist having a hooked blade (generally) rely primarily on the force of their cutting blade.
A traditional Yari is a slashing spear, so had a pointed blade plus 2 side 'lugs' that are sharp & designed to catch an opponent. So unless we are talking about the later much longer Yari (classified as Pike mediocre in v.4) I'd suggest that a Yari is a pole arm & a Naginata is HCW.
NB: the Invasion scroll shows depictions of Japanese 'followers' type infantry with Naginata which also have dangling hooks attached to the heads. Presumably to entangle a horsemans armour & unhorse them. However, I'd suggest that their primary mode of killing is still using a heavy percussive blow.
Having Followers just armed with sword in the 221 list does seem to be inaccurate & if they are such poor quality should that be reflected by them being classified as Mediocre.
So MF swd,HCW mediocre should be an option (IMHO). |
Weapons could also be used against horses... |
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Gingerdave
Barbare
Inscrit le: 15 Sep 2017
Messages: 29
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| Posté le: Lun Jan 08, 2024 2:35 pm Sujet du message: |
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| ALEXANDER a écrit: | The Polearm is a misdevelopment. I have Swiss and am annoyed that I no longer have Medium Swordmen 2HW. The Polearm is an anti cavalry weapon. It's useless in bad terrain. Swordmen impetuous or impact are cheaper or better.
... and in open terrain against horsemen, Heavy Spearmen are better and cheaper!!!! than Heavy swordmen Polearm
I think polearm should be classed as
....Medium spearmen + 2HW 8 points
or Heavy Spearmen + 2HW 9 points
+**cancels iimpact of Impetous swordmen if recieving charge to the front |
Having been smacked with a (blunt, rubber, for training) billhook/halberd, I'd agree with rating polearms as Spearmen with 2HW.
A 5 foot poleaxe is a terrifying thing to have heading towards you. An 8-10 foot halberd?  
There's no reason for it to be more dangerous to someone on horseback as polearms currently are. OK, you can use the hook to pull someone off a horse, but the hook's useful against infantry - you can hook on the shoulder and pull them out of position, on a leg and trip them up, and it's possible to pull weapons out of position. I've read that at one battle the English used their new bills to cut the heads off the Scottish pikes, but I don't know if it's true.
All that makes sense to have them as Spearmen 2HW - the spike on the top works to stop a charge as a spear, they do enough damage to count as 2HW against everyone and the bill-vs-pike example sounds like 2HW winning the tie vs pikes.
Not sure about cancelling impact of impetuous foot for those points, it's a bit too good. |
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