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Jhykronos
Auxiliaire
Inscrit le: 02 Aoû 2015 Messages: 95
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Posté le: Mer Juil 21, 2021 7:32 pm Sujet du message: Generals attached to units in melee |
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p.27:
"When a commander is attached to a unit, he stays attached to it until the end of the game turn or until the end of the melee if it is engaged in combat."
"It" is used twice in this sentence, so most logically refers to the unit, not the commander. However, the phrase "engaged in combat" is pretty much used elsewhere in the rules to refer to commanders, not units.
Does this mean that if a commander is attached to a unit in melee, he cannot move and attach to another unit during the movement phase, even if he himself is not engaged in melee? Or is the translation picking the wrong pronoun here, and the commander is only stuck with the unit if he himself is fighting? _________________ - Let the Die be Cast |
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Black Prince
Prétorien
Inscrit le: 17 Oct 2016 Messages: 290
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Posté le: Jeu Juil 22, 2021 12:13 am Sujet du message: |
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If a general is attached to a unit in melee/ combat but you have not included the general's factor (+1) in melee then the general is not fighting with the unit and is free to move to another unit. |
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Jhykronos
Auxiliaire
Inscrit le: 02 Aoû 2015 Messages: 95
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Posté le: Jeu Juil 22, 2021 4:32 am Sujet du message: |
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That's how we've played it for years.
OTOH, that is not what that sentence says. _________________ - Let the Die be Cast |
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daveallen
Tribun
Inscrit le: 28 Jan 2016 Messages: 742
Localisation: Rugby & CLWC
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Posté le: Jeu Juil 22, 2021 10:35 am Sujet du message: |
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As you say, the phrase "engage(d) in combat" is used in that rule to describe when the commander is fighting in a melee.
Both "he" and "it" translate to "il" in French, so let's go with the simplest solution - it's a mistranslation and the general is only stuck with a unit in melee if he is engaged in combat.
Dave _________________ Putting the ink into incompetence |
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MC_Delicatessen
Auxiliaire
Inscrit le: 30 Juil 2020 Messages: 87
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Posté le: Jeu Juil 22, 2021 10:16 pm Sujet du message: |
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The first it is the unit
The second it should be he/she.
I like to think of it as being a very progressive non-binary-friendly approach to writing.
Excellent spot. I'm impressed! |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015 Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
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Posté le: Dim Juil 25, 2021 2:12 pm Sujet du message: |
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Jhykronos a écrit: | p.27:
"When a commander is attached to a unit, he stays attached to it until the end of the game turn or until the end of the melee if it is engaged in combat."
"It" is used twice in this sentence, so most logically refers to the unit, not the commander. However, the phrase "engaged in combat" is pretty much used elsewhere in the rules to refer to commanders, not units.
Does this mean that if a commander is attached to a unit in melee, he cannot move and attach to another unit during the movement phase, even if he himself is not engaged in melee? Or is the translation picking the wrong pronoun here, and the commander is only stuck with the unit if he himself is fighting? |
For clarity, the text quoted should possibly have been written "When a commander is attached to a unit, he stays attached to it until the end of the game turn or until the end of the melee if the unit is engaged in combat."
Note the Attached sub-section that follows, 2nd bullet point states Citation: | A commander can engage in combat but only if the player chooses to and says so to his opponent. Once engaged in combat the commander remains so until one of the units is Routed, which can take several game-turns.
(my emphasis) |
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daveallen
Tribun
Inscrit le: 28 Jan 2016 Messages: 742
Localisation: Rugby & CLWC
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Posté le: Dim Juil 25, 2021 3:25 pm Sujet du message: |
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Ramses II a écrit: | For clarity, the text quoted should possibly have been written "When a commander is attached to a unit, he stays attached to it until the end of the game turn or until the end of the melee if the unit is engaged in combat."
Note the Attached sub-section that follows, 2nd bullet point states Citation: | A commander can engage in combat but only if the player chooses to and says so to his opponent. Once engaged in combat the commander remains so until one of the units is Routed, which can take several game-turns.
(my emphasis) |
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Good spot on the Attached Commander rule. Which confirms that the rule should be read as:
"When a commander is attached to a unit, he stays attached to it until the end of the game turn or until the end of the melee if he is engaged in combat."
Otherwise you'd end up with commanders stuck with units in melee when the commanders themselves weren't engaged in combat.
Dave _________________ Putting the ink into incompetence |
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Ballista
Légionaire
Inscrit le: 15 Jan 2018 Messages: 117
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Posté le: Mer Mar 15, 2023 7:50 am Sujet du message: |
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Situation: Commander attached to a unit in his turn.
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In following enemy turn this unit evades off table.
Question is - does the commander have to go with the unit (off table) or is he free to move to another unit ? |
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KevinD
Légat
Inscrit le: 23 Aoû 2021 Messages: 500
Localisation: Texas
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Posté le: Mer Mar 15, 2023 12:29 pm Sujet du message: |
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I think if you were attached and have not subsequently “detached†you go with it off table, but clarification or confirmation about this would be welcome. See p 27 about “detachingâ€. |
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Ballista
Légionaire
Inscrit le: 15 Jan 2018 Messages: 117
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Posté le: Mer Mar 15, 2023 6:05 pm Sujet du message: |
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The very last sentence says ".... he stays attached to it until the end of the game-turn pr until the end of ...."
Game turn ended with defenders turn, new game turn now with attackers turn - so can he then stay there and not evade off table ? |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015 Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
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Posté le: Sam Mar 18, 2023 3:04 am Sujet du message: |
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The penultimate sentence of Attaching a commander to a unit states Citation: | An attached commander moves and flees with the unit he is attached to. | The Game Turn is divided into two sequences, one per player, so as noted above, it seems the commander is technically attached during the opposing player’s sequence.
Therefore, if the unit he is attached to evades off table during the opposing player’s sequence, it seems the commander goes with the evading unit - but this may need official confirmation. |
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madaxeman
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014 Messages: 1468
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
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Posté le: Sam Mar 18, 2023 1:14 pm Sujet du message: |
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Ballista a écrit: | The very last sentence says ".... he stays attached to it until the end of the game-turn pr until the end of ...."
Game turn ended with defenders turn, new game turn now with attackers turn - so can he then stay there and not evade off table ? |
the definition of "game turn" on p23 does not include the reference to attackers or defenders you have cited here.
It just refers to two consecutive player phases.. which does make this question moot. _________________ www.madaxeman.com |
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Neep
Légionaire
Inscrit le: 09 Jan 2023 Messages: 130
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Posté le: Sam Mar 18, 2023 3:12 pm Sujet du message: |
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That's so right and so wrong at the same time! |
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Ballista
Légionaire
Inscrit le: 15 Jan 2018 Messages: 117
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Posté le: Dim Mar 19, 2023 3:15 am Sujet du message: |
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madaxeman a écrit: | Ballista a écrit: | The very last sentence says ".... he stays attached to it until the end of the game-turn pr until the end of ...."
Game turn ended with defenders turn, new game turn now with attackers turn - so can he then stay there and not evade off table ? |
the definition of "game turn" on p23 does not include the reference to attackers or defenders you have cited here.
It just refers to two consecutive player phases.. which does make this question moot. |
Bit like tomato or tomato isn't it. |
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