Art De La Guerre

[KevinD]

Are the Rouran supposed to be included in the Xiongnu or Central Asian Turkish list?

NB. - the Rouran are widely believed to be the forerunners of the Pannonian Avars, and recent DNA evidence seems to confirm, or at least support, this link. They established a large Central Asian steppe empire centered on the Eastern steppe which included the Göktürks and Hepthalites as subject peoples. They were overthrown when the Göktürks rebelled against them ca 552 AD. They subsequently are thought to have fled west, where they became known as the Avars. They were pursued by the Göktürks, who negotiated with the Byzantines to pursue their Avar enemies in the Western steppe and Balkans.

Is this why the Xiongnu include Göktürk allies from 545-552 AD?

I assume these are not Southern Xiongnu and should probably not include any Southern Xiongnu Kingdoms nor any Qing and Di infantry either.

If so shouldn’t they also include Hepthalites as allies too (from say 450 AD or so)?

At first, I thought they should be in the Central Asian Turkish (CAT) list (#140) as they controlled the same area and have what I’d assume are similar troop types and culture. (The fact that both the Rouran and Göktürks used stirrups and the Ashina clan/Göktürks were blacksmiths for the Rouran and provided them with arms and armor makes their troops functionally similar to me… Theirs (Rouran and Göktürk’s) is a different (steppe) metallurgical tradition from the Sinicized Southern Xiongnu and latter Xianbei kingdoms who used Chinese metallurgy for their arms and weapons. Admittedly there is extensive archeological documentation of the Imperial Xiongnu (say 250-50 BC) using steppe metallurgy, but this is several centuries earlier and probably predates widespread stirrup usage and thus their arms and armor were probably considerably different. However the CAT date is not early enough to allow for them to include the Rouran. (Should the earliest date for the CATs be pushed back to 300 AD to allow for them? Probably…) Alternatively, given their genetic link, the Rouran might be included in the Xianbei list, if not given their own list, but again though there is a genetic link there does not seem to be as firm a material/archeological connection between the Rouran and Xianbei armies as with the Göktürks.