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madaxeman
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 01 Nov 2014
Messages: 1468
Localisation: Londres Centraal.
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 Posté le: Sam Juin 12, 2021 11:45 am Sujet du message: |
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| Dave_r a écrit: | | Ramses II a écrit: | Your reasoning is not correct, and the intention has not changed from V3.
To amplify what Tim and Dave have said, this is actually a problem that resulted from converting from V3 to V4. The definitions of "melee" in p60 were amended but their subsequent use in Pursuit p68
has remained unchanged. |
So my reasoning is correct, but the rules need updating  |
Your reasoning involved an assumption of a priority of pursuing based on the ordering of bullet points. This is an incorrect assumption.
So partly yes, and partly no. But El Kreator is on the case so we can all now sleep easy until we are told the answer. 
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daveallen
Tribun
Inscrit le: 28 Jan 2016
Messages: 742
Localisation: Rugby & CLWC
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| Posté le: Sam Juin 12, 2021 3:39 pm Sujet du message: |
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| madaxeman a écrit: | | I think there’s an echo in here … |
There would have been if I'd said "That's not how we did it in the old days of v3 and my greater experience means I'm right"
Instead I showed how subtle changes in terminology were not reflected in the Pursuit rule and offered a solution.
But yeah, we both agree there's a mistake.
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lionelrus
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 21 Mar 2009
Messages: 4703
Localisation: paris
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| Posté le: Sam Juin 12, 2021 7:54 pm Sujet du message: |
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désolé de répondre en français, mais Mike va traduire.
En V4 comme en V3, il est prévu que les unités qui combattent sur leur front peuvent poursuivre, en amenant éventuellement leurs supports. mais un point a échappé aux relectures:
La définition de l'unité en mêlée restreint ce statut à l'unité principale. Du coup, telle que la règle est actuellement écrite, il n'est pas possible pour une unité en soutien de mêlée de poursuivre.
El Kréator, contacté à ce sujet, va publier un errata. Le but est de permettre après destruction de l'ennemi de permettre la poursuite soit au combattant principal, soit à l'unité en soutien de mêlée.
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Perceval à Yvain et Gauvain. |
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Zoltan
Centurion
Inscrit le: 18 Jan 2015
Messages: 443
Localisation: Wellington, New Zealand
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| Posté le: Sam Juin 12, 2021 11:51 pm Sujet du message: |
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Thanks Lionelrus!
@Miike - could you please convey in French that in any subsequent errata it would be helpful to address two issues:
1. The pursuit rights of units in melee support.
2. Are units in melee support “in melee†or in just “in support� i.e. if in melee then ALL rules that apply to units in melee also apply to units in melee support.
Many thanks. |
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Mike Bennett
Centurion
Inscrit le: 11 Nov 2017
Messages: 489
Localisation: Carnforth, Lancashire, UK
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| Posté le: Dim Juin 13, 2021 6:10 am Sujet du message: |
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| Zoltan a écrit: | Thanks Lionelrus!
@Miike - could you please convey in French that in any subsequent errata it would be helpful to address two issues:
1. The pursuit rights of units in melee support.
2. Are units in melee support “in melee†or in just “in support� i.e. if in melee then ALL rules that apply to units in melee also apply to units in melee support.
Many thanks. |
Ok, done, it is also on the french language section 2, and clearly an issue with translation and precise use of the words “in meleeâ€. Must say I think the guys have done a fantastic job with translating, it is an impossible job with the way so many of us read rules following years of barkerness (me included). Lots of people reading over the rules and hyper analysis every word and punctuation mark, amazing that there are not more issues, shows the work and skill of those involved, thanks guys. |
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daveallen
Tribun
Inscrit le: 28 Jan 2016
Messages: 742
Localisation: Rugby & CLWC
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| Posté le: Dim Juin 13, 2021 10:58 am Sujet du message: |
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| Mike Bennett a écrit: |
Must say I think the guys have done a fantastic job with translating, it is an impossible job with the way so many of us read rules following years of barkerness (me included). Lots of people reading over the rules and hyper analysis every word and punctuation mark, amazing that there are not more issues, shows the work and skill of those involved, thanks guys. |
Hi Mike,
Old habits are certainly a part of the problem, however, we need to be wary of dismissing the concerns of newcomers as "Barkerness." In some cases, such as this, they see things in the rules we old lags have missed because we're carrying old habits over from v3.
The last thing we want to do is alienate people because they're wondering what other carry overs they've not been told about.
By the way, there's another issue that's come out of these changes.
See: http://www.artdelaguerre.fr/adlg/v3/forum/viewtopic.php?p=107702#107702
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1529
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| Posté le: Lun Juin 14, 2021 11:54 pm Sujet du message: |
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| daveallen a écrit: |
Old habits are certainly a part of the problem, however, we need to be wary of dismissing the concerns of newcomers as "Barkerness." In some cases, such as this, they see things in the rules we old lags have missed because we're carrying old habits over from v3.
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Very correct point. No one should object to a question. Nor clarifying the point. However elsewhere (not you) there are people who carry on the discussion a tad far. |
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vexillia
Signifer
Inscrit le: 21 Nov 2017
Messages: 351
Localisation: Warrington, UK
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| Posté le: Mer Aoû 25, 2021 11:49 am Sujet du message: |
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Has this been resolved?
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015
Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
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| Posté le: Mer Aoû 25, 2021 12:33 pm Sujet du message: |
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The discussion above gives the resolution, that a unit in melee support may also pursue, in the same way that V3 worked. Â
However the errata sheet still needs to be updated. |
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vexillia
Signifer
Inscrit le: 21 Nov 2017
Messages: 351
Localisation: Warrington, UK
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