fdunadan
Tribun
Inscrit le: 12 Juin 2009
Messages: 978
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 Posté le: Sam Fév 12, 2022 7:37 pm Sujet du message: |
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The sub groups are based on movement allowance:
5 UD for LH
4UD for Cav
3 UD for LI and LMI
you don't take into account terrain.
groups are made when the charger declares charge: "my units KnA&KnB charge your units LH1&LI2 and may contact Cv3 by a corner. Do you evade?"
you declare evade and roll once for LH1, once for LI2 and once or Cv3 since there is 3 different movement allowance.
a rank of LHLILH count as 3 groups for evade purpose, to count as 2 groups you should have LHLHLI or LILHLH.
_________________
Audentes fortuna iuvat. |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015
Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
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| Posté le: Dim Fév 13, 2022 1:07 am Sujet du message: |
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Agreed fdunadan.
As Mike and others say, it is really simple; - player A declares a charge with a unit or group of units,
- the players determine which unit(s) will be contacted - even by only a corner
- then Player B decides whether that unit, units or group of units will evade.
And as others have said, grouping these units together must comply with the rules on P10 based on their speed and type at the start of their movement. The group may split up if some units move into terrain, which is not the same as meeting a gap between obstacles (which are impassable) where the group will contract. |
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Za Otlichiye
Signifer
Inscrit le: 07 Sep 2021
Messages: 341
Localisation: Lovecraft country (and you Dan?)
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| Posté le: Dim Fév 20, 2022 6:35 pm Sujet du message: |
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| fdunadan a écrit: | The sub groups are based on movement allowance:
5 UD for LH
4UD for Cav
3 UD for LI and LMI
you don't take into account terrain.
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I agree. The rules say such as Cv with LH and not such as Cv with LH, except when the LH is in rough terrain and the Cv is in open. But I think this will be a very hard sell to any (and there are some on this thread) who see movement allowance as the current movement allowance. It would be helpful if the rules said something like roll one die for any LH; another for any Cv; and again for any foot..
| Citation: |
groups are made when the charger declares charge: "my units KnA&KnB charge your units LH1&LI2 and may contact Cv3 by a corner. Do you evade?"
you declare evade and roll once for LH1, once for LI2 and once or Cv3 since there is 3 different movement allowance
a rank of LHLILH count as 3 groups for evade purpose, to count as 2 groups you should have LHLHLI or LILHLH. |
I disagree. There is no hint that a sub group must meet the full group definition (other than the name, of course) and thereby possibly introduce any number of further rolls, merely that there will be a die roll for each category. Therefore 2 sub-groups, 2 rolls.
| Ramses II a écrit: | Agreed fdunadan.
As Mike and others say, it is really simple;
- player A declares a charge with a unit or group of units,
- the players determine which unit(s) will be contacted - even by only a corner
- then Player B decides whether that unit, units or group of units will evade.
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No one is arguing that. Yet.
| Citation: |
And as others have said, grouping these units together must comply with the rules on P10 based on their speed and type at the start of their movement.
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I do agree that all of page 10 applies. I also believe the rules allow the defender to declare as many evade groups as they wish. I'm straying into game design territory so I will shut up.
As above, I disagree that sub groups must follow page 10. But want to note that if you defined the sub groups from the start you will exclude units that would otherwise be allowed to evade.
| Citation: |
The group may split up if some units move into terrain, which is not the same as meeting a gap between obstacles (which are impassable) where the group will contract. |
Note that there are also rules about sliding and wheeling around obstacles, including voluntarily avoiding restrictive terrain. Therefore, I think the units essentially move independently rather than in a group block, just as with charges. Unimpeded they end up in the same group formation, of course.
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Neither of you address if you have two groups or two separate units targeted, do you make one roll or two?
I'm not sure if that because you think it's flamingly obvious and don't want to embarrass me, or because you are unsure. 
Say you have two, separated LI being charged. I can read
- Only one roll to adjust evade distance is made for each group or isolated unit which evades.
either way. Each would suggest one die for the first LI and another for the second. But only emphasizes one die, and you would never consider rolling two dice for the first LI, so it would seem to indicate one roll for both. Maybe it's clearer in the French text. |
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fdunadan
Tribun
Inscrit le: 12 Juin 2009
Messages: 978
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| Posté le: Dim Fév 20, 2022 7:55 pm Sujet du message: |
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If you have 2 groups (of units with same movement) or 2 separated units you make 2 rolls: one roll for each group.
That's clear, you make ONE roll for ONE group or unit of same movement.
To clarify, if 3 LH in line are charged and evade, you make one roll for the group.
If it is CvCvLH, you make two rolls.
If it is CvLHCv you make three rolls
If it is LH_LH_LH you make three rolls since you have three separated units.
If a group (of same movement) evade, you can't choose to split the group.
_________________
Audentes fortuna iuvat. |
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lionelrus
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 21 Mar 2009
Messages: 4712
Localisation: paris
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| Posté le: Dim Fév 20, 2022 8:13 pm Sujet du message: |
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| fdunadan a écrit: | If you have 2 groups (of units with same movement) or 2 separated units you make 2 rolls: one roll for each group.
That's clear, you make ONE roll for ONE group or unit of same movement.
To clarify, if 3 LH in line are charged and evade, you make one roll for the group.
If it is CvCvLH, you make two rolls.
If it is CvLHCv you make three rolls
If it is LH_LH_LH you make three rolls since you have three separated units.
If a group (of same movement) evade, you can't choose to split the group. |
Absolutly!
_________________
"Quand on a pas de technique, faut y aller à la zob"
Perceval à Yvain et Gauvain. |
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Ramses II
Magister Militum
Inscrit le: 17 Juil 2015
Messages: 1160
Localisation: London
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| Posté le: Dim Fév 20, 2022 9:12 pm Sujet du message: |
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Agreed with the others
Where several units will be contacted by a charge, they may or may not form a group depending on their location, type and speed (per groups P10). The targeted player throws the minimum number of evade dice possible - he cannot choose to throw a separate dice for each unit unless they do not form a group. |
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Za Otlichiye
Signifer
Inscrit le: 07 Sep 2021
Messages: 341
Localisation: Lovecraft country (and you Dan?)
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| Posté le: Mar Fév 22, 2022 4:16 am Sujet du message: |
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Thanks gentlemen. I have no objections to those interpretations. And the situations where they would arise seem very unlikely. Even the question of whether there are one or two rolls for a coouple of individual LI will rarely be significant.
But I do want to make the point for the record that the defender gets to choose the composition of the evading group (or groups as they sometimes must). |
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