Art De La Guerre

[Neep]

A basic question about the difficult maneuver penalty from the Facebook group - A group including unmaneuverable units makes contact with enemy, stopping short. The unmaneuverable units do not make contact with the enemy (ex. El behind LI in column). Is this a difficult maneuver for the group?

[lionelrus]

[KevinD]

That’s how I’ve always thought about it (if the group contacts enemy then other Unmaneuverable units in the group don’t cause you to pay +1 CP).

However, looking more closely at (the English version of) the rules, they say it’s a difficult move if the UNIT, not group, does not make contact. See the 3rd from the last bullet on page 34.

[Dickstick]

Lionel this does need a tidy up for 5th edition in English.
_________________
Player 747 don't call me Jumbo

[lionelrus]

[KevinD]

I don’t think it is clear. If it said group, it would be, but it says unit. This should be clarified IMO.

[Dickstick]

Europe plays group as far as I've seen
_________________
Player 747 don't call me Jumbo

[Ramses II]

Guys, there are two aspects to this 

1. The CP cost for moving the group is that for the unmanoeuverable units in the group (P34, restrictions 1st BP)
   
2. those units in the charge that do not make contact with the enemy must follow the steps in P43, (Continuing a charge 2nd BP)

[SteveR]

I was the fellow who brought this question up originally so let me clarify what was going on. It was not a case of continuing a charge at all.

I had a LI in front of an elephant. The elephant is, of course, unmaneuverable.

I wanted to move this group up to provide simple support of a friend in combat.

Due to distance, the LI could make contact with the enemy, the elephant did not have enough movement to make contact.

The exception to the additional cost is if the unmaneuverable unit ends in contact with the enemy - per page 34 second bullet.

I looked at the rules in the light of this circumstance. The unmaneuverable unit does not end in contact, the maneuverable one does.

It says "unit ends in contact" not "unit or any unit in the group ends in contact with the enemy"

Now, if it had been a column of two elephants and the rear one did not make contact but the front one did it would be pretty intuitive that the cost should be 1 CP - that Gedankenexperiment is what led me to the answer it was okay. But I thought I would ask.

It was a friendly game so I just did something else, I did not want the elephant left behind and unscreened.

I don't think it is perfectly clear the text, but it certainly is a fairly minor point, and so may not warrant clarification, and I think we've all been playing it this way anyway.

[Zoltan]

So a column of LI followed by elephant advances into contact (presumably simple support).

Sounds like the LI moved less that 3 UD to make contact; ipso facto the elephant also moved less than 3 UD (and clearly did not make contact with the enemy).

Unmanoeuvrable unit moving less than full move and NOT ending in contact. It's a difficult move so 2 CP please.

P.34 Difficult manoeuvre clearly talks about unmanoeuverable units, not groups, advancing less than full movement allowance.

[MarkK]

[SteveR]

Well MarkK and Zoltan

Let me ask you.

A column of two HI Impetuous, one behind the other, charges an enemy MSW which is 1.5 UD away.

How many CP is that?

[Zoltan]

[Ramses II]

Agreed guys, you determine the CP needed beforehand and you are allowed to pre-measure (in this case to see if there is 3CP between the Li and the target). 

To the question of impetuous HI in column, if the leading unit can make contact then the group pays 1 CP (the second unit is still part of the group and is therefore ignored).

[SteveR]