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charge unit in contact shift
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 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Rules questions V3
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
Messages: 1546
MessagePosté le: Jeu Nov 20, 2014 11:18 pm    Sujet du message: charge unit in contact shift Répondre en citant
Under special movements, Charge. 1st bullet. (page 36)

Unit in contact even by a single corner can conform by aligning to fight in melee.

Y moved up to 1/2 past x front. They are in side edge contact and no one is in ZOC.

X
XY
_Y

Could X choose to conform per the bullet, even if it in means moving backward (and sliding obviously) so both front edge meet?
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Longtooth
Signifer


Inscrit le: 14 Oct 2014
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Localisation: Oxford
MessagePosté le: Ven Nov 21, 2014 8:08 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Would X not conform onto Y's flank?
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Rosbif
Signifer


Inscrit le: 18 Fév 2013
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MessagePosté le: Ven Nov 21, 2014 11:23 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Hazelbark a écrit:
Could X choose to conform per the bullet, even if it in means moving backward (and sliding obviously) so both front edge meet?

1. To be a valid charge, X must contact the enemy with its front edge or one of its front corners (Charge definition, p36) so X's move is not a valid charge and is therefore not allowed.
2. The maximum distance allowed for a conformation after a charge is 1 UD (Conforming p52) so X could not conform to Y's front even if the charge was legal and therefore the charge is not allowed.

Longtooth a écrit:
Would X not conform onto Y's flank?

3. From Hazelbark's description, X did not begin its move on Y's flank so it is not allowed to make a flank charge and conform to Y's flank.
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Longtooth
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MessagePosté le: Ven Nov 21, 2014 12:44 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Are you sure about that, Rosbif?

My understanding of the original scenario is that Y moves up on his turn. The question is whether X can charge or conform on his own turn.
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Rosbif
Signifer


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MessagePosté le: Ven Nov 21, 2014 3:04 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Ah, I misunderstood the scenario, but the principles still apply.

1. Neither X nor Y could move into edge to edge contact with each other unless its opponent was already in melee with a friendly unit (Charge definition, p36) so the only valid ways I can think of for two units to be in edge to edge contact are if a third unit was either destroyed or it disengaged.

2. If the units do begin in edge to edge contact at the beginning of X's turn then the Conforming after a melee rule, p55, must be used (since the only valid ways for two units to be in edge to edge contact are if a third unit was either destroyed or it disengaged). The rule says, "The rules for contacting the side or rear of an enemy and the restrictions on contact remain valid for this particular kind of conformation." Types of contact, p51, limits X to conforming to Y's flank because X's front is to Y's flank and not its front.

Does that answer the question?
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
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MessagePosté le: Ven Nov 21, 2014 5:22 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Rosbif a écrit:
Ah, I misunderstood the scenario, but the principles still apply.

1. Neither X nor Y could move into edge to edge contact with each other unless its opponent was already in melee with a friendly unit (Charge definition, p36) so the only valid ways I can think of for two units to be in edge to edge contact are if a third unit was either destroyed or it disengaged.


I see your point. No incidental contact is allowed so you cannot move to side contact (another old DBM habit that needs to be lost).

What did provoke the question was this was as a result of a unit being destroyed. I thought I was simplifying, but getting that contact clear is helpful. The result of the positions is still possible as you say.
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
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MessagePosté le: Ven Nov 21, 2014 5:24 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Rosbif a écrit:

2. If the units do begin in edge to edge contact at the beginning of X's turn then the Conforming after a melee rule, p55, must be used (since the only valid ways for two units to be in edge to edge contact are if a third unit was either destroyed or it disengaged). The rule says, "The rules for contacting the side or rear of an enemy and the restrictions on contact remain valid for this particular kind of conformation." Types of contact, p51, limits X to conforming to Y's flank because X's front is to Y's flank and not its front.

Does that answer the question?


This is exactly what I needed. It is very clear, but wasn't processing in our mind at the time. Thank you.
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Rosbif
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MessagePosté le: Ven Nov 21, 2014 5:29 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
I have remembered another way two units could end up side by side - if one had made a Pursuit (p62) move. However the situation would be dealt with in the same way.
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