Art De La Guerre

[Snowcat]

Does anyone know who these guys are in the Seljuk army lists? (Or any other army lists?)

The Perry Bros made them in their Muslim range for the Crusades, and distinguish them from Seljuk javelinmen (who all have long hair and different clothing).

https://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/ma24.jpg

They look great, but where are they in the army lists?

Cheers
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"When one goes, one must go with style."

[Timur le lent]

Difficult to answer. ADG lists came from DBM lists and so, based on WRG research. And DBM list turkish javelinmen. So ADG list allow javelinmen.
I've seen such kind of infantrymen,like those sculpted by the Perrys, on a seldjuk bowl. The WRG book (Armies and Enemies of the crusades) shows such a figure (n°50). WRG books tells us that "infantry was not uncommon (...) and (...) most were javelin men or archers." But the figures you refer to is quoted as from Azerbaijan and would be turkish with "characteristic Turkish hairstyle which during this era seems to appear only in eastern frontier regions and among the 'uncivilized' Turcoman nomads".

As such, I use them (see below) as turkish javelinmen (figures presenting them after their have launch they javelins !!!), or as dailamis. An you can also use them as Ghazis in other lists, like the Ayyubid one.


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"Tu vois Raoul, c'était pas la peine de s'énerver, monsieur convient."

[Snowcat]

Great answer, thanks!

I also asked the question on TMP, and mentioned that James Roach used them as 'wild easterners', alongside 'hillmen'. He replaced some swords with javelins.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_WzUta4JPR-o/SbT06ydmi7I/AAAAAAAABC0/7tPDFNTYm7U/s1600/IMG_3406.JPG

So you and James have similar thinking re 'wild easterners'.

Now the biggest question remaining for me is whether to have them commanded by their own Turkoman-style leaders or long haired Seljuk leaders. I think I'm probably leaning towards their own.

Thanks again (I really must get myself another copy of Armies & Enemies of the Crusades - I regrettably sold it years ago!).

Cheers
_________________
"When one goes, one must go with style."

[Timur le lent]

Thanks for the link ! Great looking figures.
I have a pdf copy of WRG book. So, give me your e-mail in mp (personal message) and I will give you a dropbox link.

Cheers

Stéphane
_________________
"Tu vois Raoul, c'était pas la peine de s'énerver, monsieur convient."