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Shooting from terrain
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 Art De La Guerre Index du Forum > Rules question V4
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Mark G Fry
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Inscrit le: 15 Juin 2017
Messages: 325
Localisation: Bristol, UK
MessagePosté le: Mer Avr 24, 2024 9:59 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Neep a écrit:
Because the rule on page 70 refers to the shooting edge of the shooters vis-à-vis cover. If it extends to difficult terrain, then we have an answer - I probably should have put that possibility in the rephrasing.

Good point about plants on hills, though I assume you must have access to the specific type of vegetation in the region?


Plantations include Vineyards - & there are plenty of those, on hills across the world going back into antiquity Very Happy
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Andy Fyfe
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Inscrit le: 14 Fév 2024
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Avr 25, 2024 11:53 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Hazelbark a écrit:
the latest FAQ
Shooting from cover (page 58-59) A unit that shoots from behind a fortification does not suffer a shooting penalty.


Is there a question that is unresolved for you? I will resolve it. Happy to serve.


I read the latest FAQ but it mentions 'fortifications' and not 'terrain' so I had assumed it was a specific answer about units not being penalised when shooting from behind a fortification.

The rules on shooting are not consistent is I think what is being pointed out.

The questions I feel would be good to have answered are:

1. Is shooting from a plantation a special case or just treated like shooting from any other terrain which offers cover?

2. When does a unit count as 'shooting from terrain'? [front edge in terrain / shooting edge in terrain / any part in terrain?]

3. A steep hill has a -1 for shooting; is this increased to -2 if cover-providing terrain is added to the hill?
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Mark G Fry
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Inscrit le: 15 Juin 2017
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Localisation: Bristol, UK
MessagePosté le: Jeu Avr 25, 2024 1:34 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
But surely there is a general rules principle here. Which is that if any part of a units base is in terrain, then the whole unit (base) is considered to be within the terrain.
That is how it works in melee, so why would it be any different for shooting?

I think the whole 'front-edge' thing is a red-herring and confusing.
I totally understand the recent FAQ around fortifications - as that this correcting an obvious anomaly - but Fortifications are not Terrain.

With regards to Woods, Plantations and Villages on steep hills - we have always played it that you don't double up the disadvantage as it seemed realistic that once you are disadvantaged by terrain you cannot be double or multiple disadvantaged. Woods, Plantations or Villages provide cover from line of sight (@ 1UD or over) and any shooters will already be disadvantaged by being on the Steep Hill.

I think this thread is making things far too complex (IMHO) Confused
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Neep
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Avr 25, 2024 4:06 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Mark, there is nothing deeper than what you note. Either Plantation has a one-off exception, or shooting location is calculated differently from melee location. Or something else.
Most of the time players will avoid having half the unit in terrain anyway, but this question can only be resolved by fiat.
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
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MessagePosté le: Ven Avr 26, 2024 2:55 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Andy Fyfe a écrit:


The questions I feel would be good to have answered are:

1. Is shooting from a plantation a special case or just treated like shooting from any other terrain which offers cover?

2. When does a unit count as 'shooting from terrain'? [front edge in terrain / shooting edge in terrain / any part in terrain?]

3. A steep hill has a -1 for shooting; is this increased to -2 if cover-providing terrain is added to the hill?



1 No special case. So just like being in cover.
2 Read p70 lower right last section "cover from shooting"
3 A single minus as its the same modifier is the only way i have seen it ruled in European competitions.
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Hazelbark
Magister Militum


Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2014
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MessagePosté le: Ven Avr 26, 2024 3:14 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Mark G Fry a écrit:


I think this thread is making things far too complex (IMHO) Confused


Well TBF this often when players see things and get the pony tails wrapped around the axle. Usually it is the result of a ruling in a game friendly or competition or something explained incompletely or hurriedly. Then once one sets off on the wrong path, it means un learning. Honestly this all accelerates if you play more than one game system and many of us do.

But we endeavor to be helpful and good will toward all.
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Andy Fyfe
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Inscrit le: 14 Fév 2024
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MessagePosté le: Lun Avr 29, 2024 12:09 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant
Hazelbark a écrit:
Andy Fyfe a écrit:


The questions I feel would be good to have answered are:

1. Is shooting from a plantation a special case or just treated like shooting from any other terrain which offers cover?

2. When does a unit count as 'shooting from terrain'? [front edge in terrain / shooting edge in terrain / any part in terrain?]

3. A steep hill has a -1 for shooting; is this increased to -2 if cover-providing terrain is added to the hill?



1 No special case. So just like being in cover.
2 Read p70 lower right last section "cover from shooting"
3 A single minus as its the same modifier is the only way i have seen it ruled in European competitions.


Thank you.
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