Art De La Guerre

[ethan]

There appears to be a bit of confusion as to what cavalry can choose to dismount in all circumstances.

There are things like list #90 says:

Spanish horsemen
Medium cavalry

List Note:
Spanish horsemen dismount as M Sw Impetuous.

The Spanish here can only dismount when faced with fortifications, obstacles, or stakes.

Then there is list #94

Nobles mounted or on foot
H Cav Impetuous
H Sw Amour Impetuous

List Note:
Vandal nobles dismount as H Sw impetuous armour with 3 cohesion points

These guys can dismount anytime they want.

But what about #151 Anglo-Saxon after 700AD (before 700AD it looks similar to #94)

Nobles - Hird (from 700AD)
H Cav
H Spear Armour

But there is no list note associated with these guys, only one for before 700AD

It seems to me this is covered by P. 21 (3rd bullet "Conditions for Dismounting") which says "...some cavalry can also dismount if their army list allows deploying these units on foot. Mounted and foot units must be on the same row."

This seems to be met by this troop type. But it appears there is some confusion caused by the inclusion of "some cavalry" which is absent from the knights and due to the lack of a list note describing their dismounting. That said in this case they are dismounting as the standard troop type allowed for dismounting so no note is needed. The "some" in "some cavalry is extraneous (alternatively the knights could also use a "some knights" as not all knights dismount) but as long as the mounted and foot version are on the same line they can dismount.

The list note is only describing troops that do not dismount as the standard type listed on p. 21.

Any thoughts?

[madaxeman]

If both mounted and for options for the same “named” troops appear in the same “box” or “line” in a list then they can freely dismount. 

This is the case for the “Nobles - Hird ....” in list 151.  Both foot and mounted options are given for “Nobles” so they are on the same “line” 

Essentially if you can choose a named troop type as either mounted or foot, you can buy them as mounted and choose to dismount without external cause. 

Whether there’s a list note about “what” they dismount as isn’t relevant to this.
_________________
www.madaxeman.com

[daveallen]

Tim,

Yes, that's what the rule is probably meant to be, but I think you've slightly missed what's being asked:


Page 21 says:

"Medium and Heavy Knights as well as some Cavalry can also dismount ... [freely] ..." and then the condition about same row, etc.

Is "some" unnecessary? It looks a bit like the "or more" that slipped into the terrain placement rule during translation [see that thread].


List 151 has a note saying how Nobles - Hird (before 700) dismount, but none for Nobles - Hird (from 700).

Is the omission an error or deliberate?

If deliberate, does it mean they dismount as HSwd Armour (per page 21) and not as HSp Armour (per the list)?


Dave

PS - It looks like the only Medium Knights this rule applies to are three Feudal Scots.
_________________
Putting the ink into incompetence

[madaxeman]

Erm… surely the rule works in the same way irrespective of whether the word “some” is there or not, as the rest of the sentence and the following one have very clear conditions that need to be met. 

Having two parallel threads running about whether there are a grand total of three superfluous words in the rules, (the presence of none of which change the application of the rules they appear in at all) is making me start to wonder if either every errata has already been found - either that or whether French printing ink is being sourced a way which is killing baby orangoutangs in Sumatra given the brouhaha over this microscopic waste of it  

I can now see the question about Hird though! God only knows on that - or perhaps El Kreator only knows is a more accurate phrase! 
_________________
www.madaxeman.com

[madaxeman]

[lionelrus]

Well, if you delete "some", it is changing something?
_________________
"Quand on a pas de technique, faut y aller à la zob"
Perceval à Yvain et Gauvain.

[madaxeman]

[lionelrus]

[Dickstick]

For it is to die not the forum?
_________________
Player 747 don't call me Jumbo

[Ramses II]

I think there is something minor to look at here. In the case of list #151, there could be a discrepancy as Dave notes. If the Nobles After AD700 were listed as HC Impact, then all would be good.

• Per P21 bpt #3, the HC Nobles in this list could always dismount irrespective of what the opponent deploys (unlike most lists).
• The note regarding nobles before AD700 merely reinforces that line of the list, overriding the normal dismounted unit type

I will put this to El Creator.

[daveallen]