Art De La Guerre

[aliatar]

Hi all.

Two groups of enemy units are on opposite sides of the extension of their front lines.

RED units are A and B. Both are MI. No impetuous
BLUE units Y and Z.

B and Y are the closest to each other but they are not in contact. Their corners are separated by 1cm.

It's RED's turn.
Unit A pivots moves straigh ahead and contacts Y on its flank. A has sufficient movement capacity and the charge is legal. If B were not there, A would conform to the front of Y normally.

Considering that there is only 1 cm between B and Y, is possible the conformation passing through B?(B is not at any time in the ZoC of Y)

Thank you

[KevinD]

I’m not sure I follow your example, but you can (and often must) shift friends to make room for your conforming. See the section starting on the bottom left of page 52 “Conformation and shifting units”. If B is not in contact, it is shifted. See the diagram on the top right of p 53. Note that in this diagram B2 was shifted even though it’s in the ZOC of A2.

[Neep]

Doesn't change anything but to be clear, A cannot contact Y on its flank, but rather on its front corner.

You may shift out of a ZoC (p. 37). So it looks like it's a legal play.

[aliatar]

Another similar situation is as it follows

https://ibb.co/jypJgwC

[KevinD]

I do not think it would just conform to the front of B as this violates the sliding and pivoting process of the bullet on the bottom left of p 50. (First bullet under “Conformation after a charge”).

I think this would be an example of Incomplete conformation” (bottom left of p 53, 3rd bullet “Otherwise, units remain in a position of incomplete conformation.”) It can’t conform into a flank or rear charge as it did not start out in a position to make a legal flank or rear attack. The combat, though positioned on the flank, would be resolved as a frontal charge. If either is Routed their “Zone of Death” (or base direction for Rampage for T) would be as the unit exists on the table; it is not reoriented prior to determining the route/rampage direction as it’s a not a flank attack. (P. 68 ) If both units survive, then B would conform to T’s front on its turn under “Conforming units in melee” page 52.

[aliatar]

This opinion is the one that makes the most sense to me.

It is the one that I defend in the debate group that we are having in the Spanish forum.

Thank you for yours answers

[Hazelbark]

You never conform through enemy.
You never conform through friends in melee.
etc.

While i understand the teleporting to the front is clean, that is not allowed.

The charge is legal.
The issue is conforming and what is the nature of the combat factors.
we know it cannot be a flank attack.
You cannot end in support position which is what would happen is the target was fighting. But that does not apply because the contact would not be allowed.

The idea as a philosophy (not rule) is geometry is not permitted to stop what would otherwise be allowed.

[Ramses II]

Thanks. So in summary, the charge is valid but because the unit cannot be conformed it is another form of ‘incomplete conformation’.

Thus the melee is calculated as though the chargers are facing the front edge of the target, and if this survives, it is then turned to face the chargers. 

[aliatar]

Thank you very much for the answers and clarifications.
Javier

[Neep]

Javier has presented two scenarios and I'm not sure which people are addressing. In the second (illustrated) scenario, the caption correctly notes that you cannot make flank contact because you have not started beyond the front edge line. This means you cannot make contact at all so there is nothing to resolve.
If you can make contact you can conform, except for terrain, enemy, and unshiftable friends in the way. If shiftable friends could block conformation there would be no opportunity to shift them.

[KevinD]

Need, I don’t think this is right.

I think you can contact them, it is just treated as an incomplete conformation (and resolved as a frontal charge).

[Neep]

As I read page 41, it's not a legal contact.