Art De La Guerre

[Dickstick]

Thanks Michael.
That's what I have been using all along.
If I'm lining the edge of a wood and attacked we are fighting in the wood.
And if I'm lining the edge of open terrain and l'm attacked we are fighting in the open.

But I wait for Hazelbark, Ramses or Alan to reference this "ruling " that people standing in the open can be dragged into terrain. (Conforming is a different thing)
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Player 747 don't call me Jumbo

[AlanCutner]

[Dickstick]

Thank you Alan.

So how do we get to know about what the french decide in future?
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Player 747 don't call me Jumbo

[AlanCutner]

I'm fairly sure I remember this being stated on the English forum, but my admittedly very quick and basic search didn't find it. In practise I find there are very few rulings kept just to the French forum.

[Hazelbark]

[Dickstick]

There you have it .
3a is the way I play it.
But 3b is sited as the way to go.

Unfortunately it can be read that two units fighting in the open both lining the edge of terrain will be moving in the open but fighting in the terrain.

That becomes a Charlie brown moment "good grief"
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Player 747 don't call me Jumbo

[Ramses II]

I understand the dilemma, but this is really a “non-issue”, except in one respect.

There is no such thing as “open terrain”, it does not exist in the list of terrain elements defined in the Setting Up section. Consequently a unit cannot be lined up on the edge of ‘open terrain’. P57 states that a melee occurring on the edge of the terrain is considered to be in the terrain (ie taking place on one of the defined terrain elements) with the associated penalties. 

The issue is that this definition is unclear. The unstated assumption seems to be that this applies to units fighting when aligned with the edge of the terrain, ie whose front edges are on either side of the edge and thus fighting across the edge.

• In the conforming and terrain diagram, unit B might touch the edge of the terrain. Yet the terrain penalties do not apply.
• It is unclear if the penalties should apply where both units are both in the open while their flanks are both touching the edge of the terrain, though this seems nonsensical as Dickstick suggests. However, a close reading of the rule suggest that this only applies where (at least) one unit is partially in the terrain.

It is to be hoped that this definition will be cleared up  in V4, 

[Hazelbark]

[Dickstick]

Ramses
Does your rulebook still have page 63?

Mine does and under types of terrain the first of four terrains is open.

Open doesn't appear under setting up because the table started as open terrain. The elephant in the room.

Some open terrain is raised up on a gentle hill.

Still say there is no such thing as open terrain?

Where a hill and a wood butt up to each other a mêlée on the mutual edge we now have both units up the hill and in the wood
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Player 747 don't call me Jumbo

[Ramses II]

Ahh, we may have a difference of understanding there

P63 describes the types of terrain, not the terrain elements that are placed, a small but significant difference.
While the terrain elements are defined on PP64-65 (including hills which may be open or another terrain type) AFAIK, the 'table' is not defined as a terrain element . . .

You do raise an interesting question about fighting across two terrain elements, another question that possibly needs to be considered in V4. However, I would suggest that the same principles would be applied; so IMO units in such a situation would be both considered to be fighting in the 'worst' terrain.

[Dickstick]

We do have a difference in understanding.

[Black Prince]

Speaking of V4 any idea when it will be released?

[Mike Bennett]

The rules define non man made terrain (most difficult except towns) as being irregular. Can the straight edged of a unit line the non straight edge of a piece of terrain?

Specifically in this case the unit outside would stop as soon as any part of its edge touched the terrain, logically the part projecting most forward. The unit inside could then not be in contact, since it would need to be sufficiently far back that it’s entire 40mm front edge was within the terrain?

[madaxeman]