Art De La Guerre

[ALEXANDER]

What do you think of this army?

C-C brilliant free
4 HC impetuous
2 HC bow
2 Lc bow elite
2 bowmen mediocre

SG ordinary included*
6 HC impetuous*
2 bowmen mediocre

SG ordinary included*
6 HC impetuous*

[ethan]

Replace bowmen with LI Bow.

I would probably downgrade a couple of HC to MC as well, maybe pick up a fortified camp with the combined saved points.

I think this style works better with 6-8 H Sw Impetuous fwiw.

[ALEXANDER]

I really like the Bowmen mediocre. They are versatile.
In a field,
....or mixed into the front of the cavalry in the first two turns (to shoot at MC bow or Lc bow)
...or behind the front from the third turn on
(to protect the camp from Lc)
Without Bowmen you need a fortified camp.
What use are Li bows other than against elephants?

One could of course downgrade the Huns to Lc bow and the Byzantines to MC bow. Then you would have 6 points for a fortified camp.

Perhaps the C-C should have 6 HC and the third SG just 4 HC.
With just 4 units they could be in Ambush or on Flank march.

If a player does not like bowmen, the African Vandals (List 142) might be a better choice than Ostrogoths. They can even have a strategist.

Vandal Strategist
18 HC Impetuous
2 LC javelin
4 Li javelin
Fortified Camp

[ALEXANDER]

[ethan]

I probably wouldn't bring the H Sp in this army (there are other similar armies that get swordsmen).

The LI Bow are useful as ambushers if you defend, against elephants and also in a field in a pinch to protect your flanks (briefly...). They are also handy if you happen to have the option to dismount...

I would also try and upgrade a few units to elite.

[MC_Delicatessen]

I haven’t played that many battles…

In my exp losing the camp is rare.

With two commanders in impetuous units (not that I’ve experienced this) you probably won’t be actually in command of a lot of your troops that much!

Mediocre bowmen are an easy target for anything, they die fast and it’s very difficult to get them working with cav. Because they rarely score bow hits they are also easy to avoid for the enemy.

Mddiocre H Sp I have used a lot and they have tended to die fast. They are prone to losing the first round and collapsing. 

With the two lists that have broadly similar troops you are not confusing the enemy. You are also praying for no terrain, which is a big coin to flip and might lead to some painful games.

Wiser heads than me have coined the rock, paper, scissors idea - have enough of a mix of troops that you can ask questions of your enemy, and enough of a plan that your three different commands can take on different roles. A lot of players go further and mix troop types within commands to further confuse and try to get preferential combat match ups.

[Hazelbark]

If you PM your email address I have a v3 Ostrogoth (the fall of rome period) after action pdf that is similar with battle reports so you can see some style similar but different. It is in the FB files section if you are there too.

The mediocre bow is wasted. Just do LI. In fact you need more LI so have a group of 4 LI for a terrain force of sorts and LI in others to help with ambushes.

You basically are a pure HC impetuous force. No one will reach your camp that is not a serious mass of good troops. so skip the fortified camp.

Your weakness is rough going. So you need proper bow or LI.

I too would try to upgrade to get some elites.

I like in general 4 Strike impetuous and one bow CV as a group. There are lots of times where you want to deploy for 1 CP something to shield a flank or take a clever position. So I put one maneuverable CV in with impetuous.

You also realize against foot foes you do not successfully run them over. You swamp their flanks and find the vulnerable bits. You will take lots of casualties, so having a large force is good

If you try the spear option the point is to march them up and let them get chewed up by the better enemy HI while you swamp his flanks. The massed HC is just to overwhelm any better elegant maneuver mounted with numbers.

[ALEXANDER]

I think its quite easy to command those HC impetuous
You always have the CP of the commander to move the whole group. You can even split them and command 2 groups.
It is also possible to advance in 2 lines to be able to wheel more easily.
Your command system is weak. You just have a brilliant or strategist Commander. The rest is ordinary. With the HC beeing unmanoeuvrable, you better keep your organisation simple...and not mix too many different troop type
....like non impetuous armies would do.

The bowmen are perfect in a field that is almost in your own deployment area or up to 8 Ud away from your table edge.
The are great to defend your camp from enemy LC.
Li will not do that.
Bowmen can fight against enemy Li in rough going too
Of course you cannot conquer a rough going defended by enemy swordsmen impact. On the other hand ..if these med swordmens wants to conquer a rough going on your side of the table, they first have to avoid beeing attacked by your HC impetuous.

The Heavy Spearmen mediocre have SUPPORT
They will survive the first enemy attack.

I would always just choose the minimum of 2 small terrain pieces (a street and something else)
and dice to shift the enemy terrain to the corners ot to the rear edge or the table.

I like the idea of combining the HC impetouos with one unit of Hc bow. Its true. Its always good to have a single manoeuvrable unit at the flank. Sometimes you do not fight yourself but just give a support. So you might not need to have the impact ability.
And you can always make a turn to defend your flank against LC. You could even shoot at them.
So perhaps I should better have groups of 5 Hc impetuus and 1 Hc bow