Art De La Guerre

[pichuleante]

My question is:


Can a heavy troop charge the front or a LI in open that have heavy troops behind that exert Zoc through the LI or must declare the charge against the unit behind the LI.

[Hazelbark]

p43 section 1
Heavy troops can choose...


So this is at the choice of the player who announces the charge.

Now the LI are required to try to evade.

[KevinD]

The chargers still have to obey the ZOC of the Heavy Unit behind (or whomever their MTE is), right?

Also, if the chargers are impetuous or chargers on foot are <= 1 UD from the Heavy Unit or <= 2 UD if mounted, they might have to continue their charge into the Heavy Unit behind.

[babyshark]

Right, Kevin. If the chargers have gone after the LI, then they must obey the rules for their minimum move when their targets evade. If their move should take them into the ZOC of the the heavies behind the LF then they must obey the ZOC rules.

Marc

[ecnomus]

Adding context to the question.

If a Cv unit A charges against an enemy B (as B is LI, there is no ZOC due to unit B) and the charge move crosses o enters a ZOC of unit C. Is it a legal charge?
Maybe unit A must charge on unit C?
_________________
Ecnomus

[KevinD]

It is a legal charge so long as it is respecting C’s ZOC.

1. So A -> BC (A facing B and C behind B with both B & C facing A) would be legal as A is not crossing C’s ZOC.


2.

B <- A
..C
(A facing B and C facing up)

Would not be legal as A can’t cross C ZOC to get at B.


3.
B <- A
C
(A facing B and C facing up)

Would be legal for A to declare a charge on B, forcing B to evade but then as soon as A enter’s C’s ZOC it must stop as A can’t cross C ZOC to follow after B. If A charges at such an angle that A can hit C then it it is legal (but this is really like case #1 above)….
(I think…)

See p 43, #6, last bullet point…

[pichuleante]

But A is not respecting C ZOC charging another unit (B) inside the zoc of C(MTE) . See pg 36 last paragraph.

[KevinD]

Which of the 3 scenarios above are you referring to? 1, 2 or 3?

See “ Special Case” on p 37.

In 1. above A can charge B because B is interposing between A and C. When B evades it can choose to carry on into C (and might be forced to do so if Impetuous or too close to C when it starts the charge (>= 1 or 2 UD if A is foot or mounted respectively).

In 2. A can’t charge B because B is not interposing between A and C.

In 3. A can charge B but must then stop when it enters C’s ZOC. If B does not evade for some reason then A can charge B as it never enters C’#0s ZOC.

[pichuleante]

Yes, sorry, i'm talking of case '1'

"special case" on p.37 can be used if the interposing unit makes imposible the charge at MTE, not the case. Being B a LI allows A to charge C.

"special case" on p.37 could be used if , for any reason, B can not evade making imposible the charge on C.

Am i wrong?

[ecnomus]

[Hazelbark]

[Ramses II]

As Hazelbark and others have said, these questions depend to some extent on following the processes and rules. 

1. P43, The chargers declare a target, which may be the LI or the HI behind. 
   
2. The LI must evade (assuming this all happens in open terrain)
3. Then the chargers move
   • If the target was the LI (which have evaded), the chargers must make an adjusted charge move, which may bring them into contact with the HI behind  (see continuing a charge)
   • If the target was behind the LI, the chargers move towards their target

When making the charge move, the unit / group must obey the rules on enemy ZoCs, so please refer to the diagrams on conformation p50, which I hope will answer your questions.