Art De La Guerre

[Mark G Fry]

Seeing a (rather nicely painted) Three Kingdoms Chinese army in play at the Kegworth 'Old Kodgers' competition over the weekend, I was intrigued, inspired and interested in potentially building one for myself. However, looking at the list I've a couple of questions.

The descriptive text mentions the 3 kingdoms of Wei, Shu Han and Wu (220CE to 265CE), in addition to the eastern (317-420CE) & western (265-316CE) Jin, and also the declining Han dynasty, that finally fall in 208CE (at the decisive battle of Red Cliffs). Whilst some of these states are mentioned as being allowed to use certain troop types from the lists (such as the Steppe auxiliaries [Wei, Jin] or Tribal auxiliaries [Wu, Shu Han] ) its just all a bit unclear, especially as a lot of these states appear to have supported each other against rival states and also supported various local and regional rebellions.

However, the list also refers to Rebel armies in 211AD. Does anybody have any idea which rebels these might be?
I ask because all my research indicated that there were a host of 'rebellions' across the Three Kingdoms period - but the most significant appears to have been the Yellow Turban/Scarves Rebellion (184CE to 205CE).
There is also the 'White Wave Bandits' a c.100,000 strong offshoot of the Yellow Turbans, that allied with the Xiongnu* against the Han, but that took place c.189-196CE.
I can find no significant rebellions or rebel armies in 211AD specifically.

My specific questions around using the list are:
a) the Rebel armies (no allies* or strategist) - states that you must 'replace all spearmen and halberdiers with militia with long spears - Pikemen mediocre'.
However, the main list has both HF spearmen and halberdiers and MF spearmen/halberdiers - are we to assume that if the HF spearmen and halberdiers are converted to Pikemen mediocre, that the option to convert some of them them to MF spearmen/halberdiers is not available?

b) although there are no specific dates mentioned in the descriptive text for Wei, Shu Han and Wu kingdoms, are we able to use those troops in a Rebel army? Looking at the date in the list for the Rebel army of 211AD I suspect that the answer is probably 'No' but it's all a bit vague.

*NB: Yellow Turban rebels should be allowed Northern Xiongnu allies - when we get around to a v.5 edition of the list.
Thanks
Mark
_________________
'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis

[KevinD]

I assume the Long Spears are for the Guanxi Coalition in the Battle of Tong Pass against Cao Cao in 211 AD. This was a coalition of various rebels and minor warlords from Gaunxi who rose up against Cao Cao. They were noted for being fierce and using long spears but not having unity of command in battle. The rebels also used stampeding cattle and horses in the engagement to contest the crossing of the Wei early in the campaign.

The Han Dynasty did not officially end until 220 AD when the Emperor Xian was forced to abdicate.

A) I don’t think they (211 Rebels) can use either HI or MI Spears and Halberdiers.

B) I don’t think they can use any troops specifically noted as belonging to other factions such as Wei, Jin or Shu Han.

[Mark G Fry]

Interesting re: the Guanxi Coalition in the Battle of Tong Pass against Cao Cao in 211 AD - not quite the rebel army I'd imagined but I can see the reference.

I also agree with both your conclusions re questions a). & b). Kevin.

Cheers
Mark
_________________
'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis