Art De La Guerre :: Voir le sujet

MarkK
Archer

Inscrit le: 07 Nov 2024
Messages: 58

Post� le: Mer Avr 30, 2025 7:41 pm Sujet du message:

Hazelbark a �crit:

MarkK a �crit:

ADGL is as much about having the best troops more than anything and the main ones are elephants, cats, pike, armoured impact for starters (certainly in the Classical period) and if you haven't got them you'll struggle to win and you often face 2 if not three from that list and for good reason.

If you are in the classical period and not facing Phalanx, Cataphracts, legionnaires and Elephants in some frequency then what game would you be playing? (Mind you Ostrogoths and Germans have both been known to beat these.) I consider that a feature.

Oh right DBM 3.1 Later Pre-Islamic Arab, with camels, Bow and endless blade. Not that i was above running that list mind you.

Caesar's Triumvir (Or Scipio Africanus) list would gladly face classical Indians with 6 Elephants. The legions are much more likely to wrap the elephants than vice-versa.

LPIA - that is a great list in DBA, love it. There are far more options for the Classical Period than just pike, cats, elephants and HI impact/armour just not as popular at tournaments (apart from those brave souls who want to keep it interesting) as they don't have any of those super troop types in. Who going to turn up with with Cappadocian with those mighty Medium Sword? It's understandable why would you turn up with one of the many vanilla armies when when you can just pick one that will make your life easier? Of course in any rule system that uses a D6 anything can beat anything and there are always caveats.

Mark G Fry
Légat

Inscrit le: 15 Juin 2017
Messages: 573
Localisation: Bristol, UK

Post� le: Jeu Mai 01, 2025 9:21 am Sujet du message:

Hazelbark a �crit:

Mark G Fry a �crit:

I've always believed (in any set of rules) that a unit must have all or part of its base within a terrain piece to be affected by it. It should therefore be possible for a unit, with its rear edge in a terrain piece but front edge entirely outside the terrain, to fight an enemy outside the terrain but be affected by the terrain itself (so LF are a classic case in point). But the attacking unit as it is outside the terrain is not affected by that terrain.

This is the rule in ADLG you will be happy to know.

A HI in rough moves 1/2 out to attack a KN. The KN is unaffected the HI is effected.

Thanks

So in this particular instance Dan - the Elephant pursues. It stops before entering the disadvantaging terrain. The enemy in the terrain (a unit of MF swd for example) would need to initiate combat (a charge) to hit the Elephant and so would have its front edge outside the terrain. If the terrain was Woods (or a Village to get that all important straight edge), then the MF fights at a disadvantage but the Elephant doesnt.
If that is the case, then I am a happy man Very Happy

_________________
'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis

Mike Bennett
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Inscrit le: 11 Nov 2017
Messages: 582
Localisation: Carnforth, Lancashire, UK

Post� le: Jeu Mai 01, 2025 4:11 pm Sujet du message:

Hazelbark a �crit:

This is the rule in ADLG you will be happy to know.
.

Unless rhe enemy is lining the edge of the terrain. Then, despite being fully outside, a unit can be disadvantaged if it was the attacker

Neep
Prétorien

Inscrit le: 09 Jan 2023
Messages: 298

Post� le: Jeu Mai 01, 2025 5:11 pm Sujet du message:
Just a quick quibble. The terrain modifier rule does not say "lining", but "at the edge". Arguably if any point of the defender's front edge is coincident with the regular or irregular edge of a terrain feature, then the rule applies. Derni�re �dition par Neep le Ven Mai 02, 2025 3:58 am; �dit� 1 fois

Mark G Fry
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Inscrit le: 15 Juin 2017
Messages: 573
Localisation: Bristol, UK

Post� le: Jeu Mai 01, 2025 8:17 pm Sujet du message:

Mike Bennett a �crit:

Hazelbark a �crit:

This is the rule in ADLG you will be happy to know.
.

Unless rhe enemy is lining the edge of the terrain. Then, despite being fully outside, a unit can be disadvantaged if it was the attacker

But in this case Mike, I think we are all agreed, the pursuing Elephant is not the attacker, as it stops outside the terrain, not in it.
So regardless of whether the unit in the terrain is exactly at the edge of the terrain, it is still 'in' the terrain and the elephant is still 'out of it. So the elephant has not initiated contact.
I don't see how it can attack the unit in the terrain, if it doesn't go into it Confused

Cheers
Mark
_________________
'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis

KevinD
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Inscrit le: 23 Ao� 2021
Messages: 646
Localisation: Texas

Post� le: Jeu Mai 01, 2025 8:47 pm Sujet du message:
In any case, the rules literally say that Elephants are not required to pursue if their (1 UD) pursuit would take them into penalizing terrain and any pursuit by elephants must be 1UD. They do not say elephants are allowed to pursue some distance other than 1 UD if 1UD would take them into penalizing terrain.

Mike Bennett
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Inscrit le: 11 Nov 2017
Messages: 582
Localisation: Carnforth, Lancashire, UK

Post� le: Jeu Mai 01, 2025 8:55 pm Sujet du message:

Mark G Fry a �crit:

But in this case Mike, I think we are all agreed, the pursuing Elephant is not the attacker, as it stops outside the terrain, not in it.
Mark

Sorry were do you get that from, I thought I clearly said I do not agree.

Mike Bennett a �crit:

If the enemy is lining the terrain edge (ie touching it) and the elephant stops when it reaches the terrain (ie also touching it) then why are they not in contact if they are parallel?

Then as the elephant moved to that position it would be the attacker..

Ps I do not agree that the elephant pursues at all from the written words. It does not say it must partially pursue to the edge, it says in must pursue except…. Which for me means no pursuit.

Ps2 I now cease any comments, as I can only go by what is written, not what was the intention, and we are going round in circles.

Mark G Fry
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Inscrit le: 15 Juin 2017
Messages: 573
Localisation: Bristol, UK

Post� le: Ven Mai 02, 2025 7:40 am Sujet du message:

Mike Bennett a �crit:

Mark G Fry a �crit:

But in this case Mike, I think we are all agreed, the pursuing Elephant is not the attacker, as it stops outside the terrain, not in it.
Mark

Sorry were do you get that from, I thought I clearly said I do not agree.
> OK Mike - but it's just not logical - if the elephant stops before it enters the terrain - how can it be attacking a unit that is in that terrain?
But happy to leave it Smile

Mike Bennett a �crit:

If the enemy is lining the terrain edge (ie touching it) and the elephant stops when it reaches the terrain (ie also touching it) then why are they not in contact if they are parallel?

Then as the elephant moved to that position it would be the attacker..

Ps I do not agree that the elephant pursues at all from the written words. It does not say it must partially pursue to the edge, it says in must pursue except…. Which for me means no pursuit.

Ps2 I now cease any comments, as I can only go by what is written, not what was the intention, and we are going round in circles.

I will agree with you Mike - it's a lot simpler that if an impetuous unit cannot pursue its full 1UD (unless it hits an enemy unit in terrain that wouldn't disadvantage it) it should not pursue.
So happy to end it there (from my POV) Very Happy

_________________
'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis